Sarah Birken, PhD is an Associate Professor in the Department of Implementation Science in the School of Medicine at Wake Forest University, and Sarah co-hosts the AcaDames podcast. In this sort-of Acadames-Shiny Epi People cross-over episode, Sarah tells me the pod's origin story, how she has changed as a podcaster, and what she loves and finds challenging about it. We also talk vulnerability and "radical honesty" along with knitting nothing but long strips, needing a butt emoji, judgy autocorrect, our phone obsession, and more!
You can find AcaDames wherever you get your podcasts or AcaDamespodcast.com. Sarah refers to an episode of AcaDames called "Bodies." That was episode S107: Journal Club: Bodies.
Sarah Birken, PhD is an Associate Professor in the Department of Implementation Science in the School of Medicine at Wake Forest University, and Sarah co-hosts the AcaDames podcast. In this sort-of Acadames-Shiny Epi People cross-over episode, Sarah tells me the pod's origin story, how she has changed as a podcaster, and what she loves and finds challenging about it. We also talk vulnerability and "radical honesty" along with knitting nothing but long strips, needing a butt emoji, judgy autocorrect, our phone obsession, and more!
You can find AcaDames wherever you get your podcasts or AcaDamespodcast.com. Sarah refers to an episode of AcaDames called "Bodies." That was episode S107: Journal Club: Bodies.
Lisa Bodnar:
Which is where I am now. Do you hear my son?
Sarah Birken:
I did.
Lisa Bodnar:
Did you just hear that?
Sarah Birken:
He's groaning. What was that? What was he groaning about?
Lisa Bodnar:
He's on zoom calls all day at school. So he's doing what we all do.
Sarah Birken:
How old is he?
Lisa Bodnar:
15. He puts himself on mute and then he just yells about his zoom, "Stop talking!"
Sarah Birken:
I get it, I get it.
Lisa Bodnar:
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Shiny Epi People. I'm your host, Lisa Bodnar. Remember to check out the additional content I put out on Twitter and Instagram at Shiny Epi People. Thank you to the new patrons to this show, if you would like to donate, I am at patrion.com/shinyepipeople. You may have heard my short note from this past Thursday, where I told you about my interview on the AcaDames podcast. And today, I get to interview one of the AcaDames hosts, Sarah Birken. Sarah is an Associate Professor in the Department of Implementation Science in the School of Medicine at Wake Forest University. She studies organizational determinants of implementation, middle manager's role in implementing evidence-based practices, the implementation of innovations in cancer care, and the selection and application of implementation theories.
Lisa Bodnar:
So Sarah is not an epidemiologist, but she's closely tied to public health. And I would argue that she is in the Epi Twitter bubble. Today, Sarah tells me about the origin of AcaDames, some of the impact that patriarchy has had on her in academia. We discuss how as a woman, she has changed and grown over the last few years. What it's like being vulnerable and authentic in academia. We talk about our meds and our therapy, and then a whole bunch of super fun stuff. Laughing with Sarah is such a great time. Also, lots of adult talk in this episode. So if you have little ears listening, take that into consideration. I hope you enjoy this chat.
Hi, Sarah.
Sarah Birken:
Hi Lisa. I'm so happy that this worked out.
Lisa Bodnar:
I'm so happy you're here. You and I met on Twitter.
Sarah Birken:
So I kind of fell in love with you from afar, because I think I saw pictures of when you hosted a dance party.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yes.
Sarah Birken:
At SER.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yes.
Sarah Birken:
And I was like, why don't implementation scientists do that? That looks fun. Yeah, that's when I was like, okay, I got to follow this lady.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. And I think then you started replying to my tweets. Then I was like, "I really like this woman because she swears openly."
Sarah Birken:
I do swear a lot.
Lisa Bodnar:
I was like, "Thank God! Someone else who just is not worried about letting it all out," and then I heard about your podcast! How did this all start?
Sarah Birken:
I had written a paper with my best friend about being a mother in academia and the unique challenges. And my friend was like, "You should do a podcast." I kind of just stuck it in the back of my head and Doctor Susan Gertler said that they had money left over from, I don't know, the provost or something and what should we do with it? I was like, "I'm just going to put it out there." And long story short, I got 2,500 bucks just as seed money. And then Whitney [Robinson] came to my office one day, which is very fortuitous. We didn't even really know each other, but she had heard about the fact that I worked half-time as a research assistant professor and she'd wanted to talk to me about it. And so she came into my office when we were chatting and I was in this stage of like, "Holy shit, I've agreed to do a podcast, I don't know how to do that."
Sarah Birken:
And so I basically, accosted Whitney and it was like, "I have to make a podcast." And she was like, "I love podcasts." And I was like, "Oh, can you do it with me?" And she was like, "Okay, let me think about that." Then again, I ran into her the next day. I was like, "Have you thought?" I am floored that she actually said, yes. Whitney is very protective of her time, which is why she's such a fricking rock star.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah.
Sarah Birken:
But it was just a time and a place and she wanted to do it, and I was like, "Oh my God, we're going to do it."
Lisa Bodnar:
What did you intend to do with the show?
Sarah Birken:
I think I just wanted to feature the voices of women academics. I had so few examples of women who were leading lives that looked sustainable and humane to me. I just didn't have any framework for thinking about what things were going to look like for me, I felt like the dominant narrative was very much about somebody who functioned as though they weren't partnered or had children or had anything other than scholarship in their life. And I just knew for sure, that was not me. I wanted to kind of bring a diversity to what it looks like to be an academic, and I think, women certainly embody that.
Lisa Bodnar:
Has the show changed over time? If it hasn't changed, I'm curious how you may have changed as either like a podcaster or person? Sorry, I've just asked you like 400 questions.
Sarah Birken:
Everything has changed. The way I podcast is very different. I think originally, I just wanted to do the interviewing and I didn't want to participate in anything else. And so I tried to pitch the podcast to our local NPR affiliate and they were like, "That's cute." And I was just trying to figure out, was there a way that I could do what I wanted to do without working super hard. And Whitney came in and basically was like, "We're starting a business, we need to treat it that way." And she was like, "Nope, we need to become an LLC, we need an employee." Yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
What?
Sarah Birken:
I see your face, yep.
Lisa Bodnar:
Wow.
Sarah Birken:
We are AcaDames podcast, LLC. And one of the things that kind of was important to us at the beginning was having a third leg to our stool, and that was critical. So Mira Bookbinder is our creative director. It's a really lovely model because we, as a group, come to consensus and that is a real intention on our part. To me, a very feminist act instead of kind of having one person lead and be the decision-maker. So that means that when we're generating content, instead of, in the beginning, I was like, "I'm going to interview my best friend, I'm going to interview this person, I'm going to interview, I just want to interview whoever I want." As we brought in each other's perspectives, it became clear that we wanted representation from a variety of people along multiple dimensions. And so the way we approached that is totally different from what I had in mind. So as a person have completely changed too. First of all, I turned 40 this year, which feels like I'm like, I'm coming out. I'm just like, "Here I am, world!"
Lisa Bodnar:
Yes. I felt the same.
Sarah Birken:
God, it feels good.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah.
Sarah Birken:
I've really taken my life by the reins. So that involves leaving my previous institution and really, multiple aspects of my life really feel like I'm standing on the edge of a cliff being like, I don't really know what's down there, but I know I'm a smart woman. And I know that I've set myself up to take steps down to wherever I want to go. And that's been super empowering. So I think the way I seek information on the podcast is much more intentional. I'm not kind of diving into content. I am seeking out content that is important to me.
Lisa Bodnar:
What's one of the favorite episodes that you've put out?
Sarah Birken:
One of my favorites is the body's episode. That was one that I felt really strongly about. I think that being a woman-identified person in academia and being visibly not a man is a huge liability. I'm an organizational sociologist by training. I think it's fascinating that we have these structures in place that were built with one type of academic in mind. And we all exist in it now, not only is it men, it's older white men with wives and it is so crazy to me that we all try to function as if that's not the structure that we're working.
Lisa Bodnar:
Can you give me some examples of those types of structures that exist that many of us probably don't even think about because it's all we've known.
Sarah Birken:
Yeah. So one of the biggest things that I have faced is that I'm homegrown. So I was trained in a master's program and a PhD program and a postdoctoral fellowship all in the same institution. And then for the first five years on faculty in that same institution. And I did that for a variety of reasons, not the least of which was that I had a community in this area because I had children in this area during my doctoral program. I had a male partner who wanted to stay in this area and I had to deal with that constraint. And the university system is built upon the assumption that an academic can bounce from one institution to another because they have a spouse who is not working, which is such an antiquated idea like it's 20, 21. And so they're in a lot of disciplines is a bias against hiring one's own.
Sarah Birken:
And so I had to fight a lot against that. Getting a position in the institution I was trained in was left with a lot of stigma and bias against me perceived or real doesn't matter. I had a really tough time. So that's just one, but there are so many, not the least of which are things like just the pictures on the wall, of previous chairs that is intimidating. I mean, there've been studies that show that if you have pictures on the wall that are more diverse, have people of color, women, that it changes the culture in the organization.
Lisa Bodnar:
Wow, I didn't know that.
Sarah Birken:
It changes doctoral students' perceptions of what they're capable of.
Lisa Bodnar:
Do you remember the number of the episode? So people could go back and find it, or the title?
Sarah Birken:
It's a journal club, it's in the first season, and it's Bodies.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay. All right. I will look it up. I would say link to it in the show notes, but I don't really know what that means.
Sarah Birken:
That sounded very podcast. Good job.
Lisa Bodnar:
Thank you, thank you. I felt like that was the moment where I'm supposed to say.
Sarah Birken:
I'll link to it in the show notes.
Lisa Bodnar:
I'll link to it in the show notes, but I don't, I honestly, don't know how one would do that. Sarah, what do you love about podcasting and what do you think is one of the more difficult things?
Sarah Birken:
What I love about podcasting is that oftentimes, I am conducting interviews or getting on the line with Whitney in the evening and I can be exhausted and irritated and not wanting to be with my headphones on and talking into a mic. And when we start talking, I'm happy.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yes.
Sarah Birken:
I'm engaged, and I'm talking to somebody who cares about whatever it is that we're talking about. We're doing it for the love of doing it. You know, I don't pay guests. Whitney and I don't get paid, this is just a labor of love. And there's something really special about people doing something just because they want to do it. And they think it's important or because they think it's fun. Who cares if they think it's important? I believe in sharing the wisdom that I've gained, because I think that we don't give enough credit to the wisdom of experience.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yes.
Sarah Birken:
It is priceless. And I don't think I appreciated as a trainee, the value of somebody who has gone through the shit and how I could learn from them. And then not until the last year and a half or two years, have I appreciated the unbelievable value that I bring as somebody who has made it through, my whole life and then, a PhD program and then a post-doctoral fellowship, and then, all of these crazy things that I've done. And like, I remember at one point realizing that I had kind of mastered writing a manuscript like I could get published, but I couldn't get funded. And just being like, "Okay, well, that's the thing I'm going to learn how to do next," and how empowering that is to be like, "That's a skill that I can learn that is not a trait." That is something that anybody can do. They just need somebody to show them how to do it. And to instill that in somebody else is just like, I mean, it's a beautiful thing.
Lisa Bodnar:
That was all the stuff you love about podcast, what's hard?
Sarah Birken:
One of the biggest challenges is how vulnerable it is. Frankly. I've shared a ton that I value authenticity more than most things. My success relates in part to my willingness to be vulnerable. I think we exist in a space where vulnerability is looked down on. And I remember during the doctoral program, I'm asking a lot of questions that I've just always been the type of person to ask a lot of questions. And like, I am embarrassed that I'm having to ask them, but I just like, I just don't care. And as long as I'm sitting in the seat, why can't I make sure that I understand what's happening and incrementally, the benefit has been, that people say, "I'm really glad you asked that question." I was afraid to ask that question, or I was afraid to say that and thank you for saying that, but I worry about whether or not I'm putting forward an image of myself that is consistent with what I want people to see.
Sarah Birken:
I mean, I think that it just means that I have to really double down on my efforts to acknowledge that I don't have control over that, and so therapy, meditation, and just acknowledging that I just need to be authentic and come what may.
Lisa Bodnar:
You use the term radical honesty with me and I love this. Can you say more about this?
Sarah Birken:
I mean, I think it's radical honesty with other people, but I think the more important thing is radical honesty with yourself, which is hard because I think at some point I realized in my life that whatever feelings I was having, I was just kind of like not willing to acknowledge if it was inconsistent with the path I thought I should be leading. And so really taking the time to confront whatever feeling I'm having, whatever reaction I'm having, and not judging that. My dissertation chair said about one of his previous doctoral students, that she was the smartest woman he had ever met. And he said about me that I wasn't afraid of anything.
Lisa Bodnar:
Oh, that's way better than smart! In my book, I would way, way, way, rather be the person who's fearless than the person who knows the right thing.
Sarah Birken:
Me too, now! And at the time, I was like, "Oh my God. He said that Leah was the smartest," but now I am like, "Damn straight."
Lisa Bodnar:
Yes.
Sarah Birken:
Like, I am not scared, that's actually wrong. I'm terrified, but I'm going to face it any way, and that is just like, ah!
Lisa Bodnar:
And it's so liberating, you don't have to put up false fronts.
Sarah Birken:
Nope.
Lisa Bodnar:
I think it allows more people to feel comfortable being themselves.
Sarah Birken:
And I think the thing to remember that I remind myself is that it's a practice. It's not a state. You know, every encounter has to be this question of, am I really going to face what's happening right now? Like, am I really going to look at this head-on and think about how I feel about it? That's so scary.
Lisa Bodnar:
It's so scary because the things that could come out that can really, really shake you to your core. Right?
Sarah Birken:
Yes.
Lisa Bodnar:
And challenge the ways that you've thought about yourself.
Sarah Birken:
Yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
You know, we're shining things up in so many ways, and when you really look hard and you're like, well, there's that shine is covering up a lot of shit.
Sarah Birken:
Yes.
Lisa Bodnar:
Like there's a lot of fucking shit there, and that is hard to be like, "I'm going to take a look at that."
Sarah Birken:
It could be really ugly, it could be a lot of stuff I don't want to see about myself, it could be a lot of stuff I don't want to see about other people, it could hurt other people.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yes.
Sarah Birken:
And like, just be willing, you don't have to do anything, that's the best part, right. Is that how can look at it? You can look at it and be honest with yourself about it and you can choose how you're going to proceed. Like that is so empowering.
Lisa Bodnar:
That's so empowering! Yes!
Sarah Birken:
Yes. Yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
Thank you, therapy. Seriously. Thank you, therapy, thank you, Lexapro. I love you. This podcast has been sponsored by Wellbutrin and Lexapro!
Sarah Birken:
Lovely, yes.
Lisa Bodnar:
Can we talk about fun stuff?
Sarah Birken:
Yes, oh my God, I'm so excited.
Lisa Bodnar:
Sarah. What's something that gave you great anxiety as a child?
Sarah Birken:
Everything?
Lisa Bodnar:
I was like a massively anxious child.
Sarah Birken:
Yes. Most social situations were very anxiety producing to me.
Lisa Bodnar:
What kind of kid were you?
Sarah Birken:
I was kind of like, I am now only, not as well-spoken and dressed really poorly with that bad haircut. Like I've always been a little, like, I just want to engage, a lot! For a shit-kicking town in California, a very conservative area, like a very smart Jew was not super duper popular, so. I was smart and kind of sassy and knew that that was not the way a little girl was supposed to be, but I just couldn't help it. So it was like in the back of my head, I was like, "Sarah, just bring it down a little bit," but the outside of me was like, "Wow!"
Lisa Bodnar:
What's something you'll never do again?
Sarah Birken:
I'll never run a marathon again. I ran a marathon. I trained for it after college. It got me in great shape. And it really instilled in me a love of running. I love to run, but it took me a long time to get to a place where I loved it. And it wasn't a punishment. I did do a half marathon, has a friend of mine, asked me to sign up for it with her, and then she promptly got pregnant with twins and it was peace. I was like, I don't-
Lisa Bodnar:
Did you give her the double bird? "Here are my twins!"
Sarah Birken:
It was just like, okay, that's it, no more races for me. So I just go out in the woods and I run and I love it.
Lisa Bodnar:
What personality trait has gotten you in the most trouble?
Sarah Birken:
I have zero filter. I see a lot of things that I regret. I try not to, but sometimes it just happens.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah.
Sarah Birken:
It's gotten better as I've gotten older. And Lexapro helps, there's a little bit of like-
Lisa Bodnar:
Does it?
Sarah Birken:
Yes. So I've heard two analogies that are really apt. So my analogy is it's my vestibule. Like I get this like space to walk through before I react, which is fabulous. Yeah, somebody else called it bumpers like in a bowling alley, but for me, it's just like a little bit of brain waves that I get to reign in before I continue.
Lisa Bodnar:
It's like a cloud lifting. That's how I always view it as this just like a lightness. Like I can see more clearly. I feel lighter.
Sarah Birken:
Yes, the message is you don't have to suffer.
Lisa Bodnar:
And whatever it takes to get there.
Sarah Birken:
Right.
Lisa Bodnar:
Do it, man, just do it.
Sarah Birken:
Whatever it is. So I remember before I got on meds, my therapist, I said like, I really have to think creatively for my job. And she was like, "Do you think you're going to like, your personality is going to change or something. Do you get worried that ibuprofen is going to change your personality?" So.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. This is part two because of audio fuck ups, we're doing it at 10:00 AM.
Sarah Birken:
10:00 AM.
Lisa Bodnar:
And we are having a drink.
Sarah Birken:
We're having a drink, I'm having a wine cooler. It's a barefoot spritzer.
Lisa Bodnar:
Let me see it.
Sarah Birken:
It's very delicious.
Lisa Bodnar:
Nice, and I am having a breakfast cocktail, it does not include eggs and bacon.
Sarah Birken:
What is it?
Lisa Bodnar:
Lemon cello, St. Germaine, and lime juice, and a little sugar, so cheers to part two.
Sarah Birken:
Cheers, 10:00 AM.
Lisa Bodnar:
10:00AM, part two.
Sarah Birken:
Here we go.
Lisa Bodnar:
part two.
Sarah Birken:
I also want you to know that I have cranberry bread.
Lisa Bodnar:
Oh!
Sarah Birken:
Because I was going to give blood today. Last time they were like, "How much did you eat before coming in?" Because I fainted. And I was like, "I had a bagel! Like what do you want from me?"
Lisa Bodnar:
So now you're going to go in and be like, "I had a wine spritzer and cranberry bread, my blood alcohol content might prohibit me from giving blood."
Sarah Birken:
But like, a wine spritzer, no, they're not even going to detect it, it's going to be fine.
Lisa Bodnar:
And if I needed blood, then fucking give me some blood with some alcohol in it, I don't care!
Sarah Birken:
With some wines spritzer! I'd be like, give me, I would select that if given the option. "Can I have the wine spritzer blood please?"
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay. So part two.
Sarah Birken:
Part two.
Lisa Bodnar:
What are old people things that you do?
Sarah Birken:
I knit. So I don't actually make anything, I just knit really long strips.
Lisa Bodnar:
Why don't you just knit something like a blanket? If it's just a long string.
Sarah Birken:
I know, I'm just not interested. I just love creating a thing or doing a thing.
Lisa Bodnar:
I love that. Do you talk to yourself?
Sarah Birken:
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah?
Sarah Birken:
I sure do!
Lisa Bodnar:
So do I. When do you talk to yourself?
Sarah Birken:
I'm going to be really vulnerable here since we talked about.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay. All right, I'm ready.
Sarah Birken:
On my runs, I will have very compulsive thoughts. I don't know if I know the meaning of that, but I'll have thoughts that are like intrusive, I think is the word, and I'll be like, "Stop it!" And I'll say that out loud.
Lisa Bodnar:
You say it out loud.
Sarah Birken:
Yeah, "Juts stop it!" And my therapist encouraged me to be kind to myself, so I have replaced, "Stop it," with "It's okay."
Lisa Bodnar:
So you're just running-
Sarah Birken:
It's okay.
Lisa Bodnar:
And someone nearby, you're walking by them, and you're like, "It's okay."
Sarah Birken:
It's okay.
Lisa Bodnar:
I talked to myself in the grocery store and I'm really glad that I have the mask on now, because now, I don't talk out loud. I just kind of mumbled.
Sarah Birken:
“Where's the Tabasco sauce?”
Lisa Bodnar:
Yes! I'm like, "Oh, they don't have the right milk." I do a lot of that. Like, “Oh, these bananas are too green.” So I'm really happy about the mask. Nowadays, Sarah, what do you need most in a friend?
Sarah Birken:
Oh my God. That's a good question. Two things, I need somebody who's empathetic and nonjudgmental who has lived long enough? Who knows that you just don't know until you are in that person's shoes, and so like.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yes.
Sarah Birken:
Only I know what's right, and you just need to like, trust that I'm doing the best I can.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay. I'm going to read a bunch of things and I want you to say yes or no.
Sarah Birken:
Oh, my God, I love this.
Lisa Bodnar:
Saltwater taffy?
Sarah Birken:
Yes.
Lisa Bodnar:
I agree. Dippin' Dots.
Sarah Birken:
No.
Lisa Bodnar:
Blue cheese.
Sarah Birken:
Yes.
Lisa Bodnar:
Hmm.
Sarah Birken:
Tell me how you really feel, Lisa.
Lisa Bodnar:
Olives.
Sarah Birken:
Yes.
Lisa Bodnar:
Me too. White chocolate?
Sarah Birken:
Okay.
Lisa Bodnar:
No, I said yes or No.
Sarah Birken:
Yes, yes.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay. All right. Fair. Would you rather have no cell phone or no washing machine?
Sarah Birken:
No washing machine.
Lisa Bodnar:
True. Okay. Say more, say more.
Sarah Birken:
I used to travel a fair amount and I would bring laundry detergent and I would just wash my clothes in the sink of the hotel, and I even got this like bungee cord line. I had clips on it and I would hang my laundry.
Lisa Bodnar:
Well, do you have like a portable washboard?
Sarah Birken:
No?
Lisa Bodnar:
You put it in your lap and whoosh, whoosh, and somebody next to you like plays a banjo?
Sarah Birken:
No.
Lisa Bodnar:
No banjos?
Sarah Birken:
No.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay. I just can't be without my cell phone.
Sarah Birken:
I'm okay with it. I haven't really, completely, but-
Lisa Bodnar:
Right? But I feel uncomfortable when it's not with me!
Sarah Birken:
It just has so much information, right? I'll be like, "Oh, what am I doing tomorrow?" It's there. "Oh, what's the weather?" It's there! "Oh, what are my friends," it's right there. It's fabulous. I don't believe people who say otherwise, like, shut up.
Lisa Bodnar:
Shut up. They'll be like, I didn't see your text. Like, what? Come on!
Sarah Birken:
Shut the fuck up. Just shut up. You didn't see your text, Jesus Christ.
Lisa Bodnar:
Most often used emojis?
Sarah Birken:
Kissy face.
Lisa Bodnar:
You did send me one.
Sarah Birken:
I did? That's really awkward!
Lisa Bodnar:
No, it's not, it's lovely.
Sarah Birken:
What did I do? Why did I kiss you?
Lisa Bodnar:
Because, okay, I'm going to pull it up.
Sarah Birken:
Person I've never met in person?
Lisa Bodnar:
Yes, oh! Yeah. Oh my gosh. Look at this, I'm going to hold it up. Two hearts!
Sarah Birken:
Oh! Hearts. Yes, lots of hearts.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yes.
Sarah Birken:
I will send hearts and kissy faces, but not to just anyone. You're just special.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay. I think I use the heart, number one, the laughing-so-hard-you're-crying one.
Sarah Birken:
Yeah, me too.
Lisa Bodnar:
And I use the banana a lot. It's not a sex thing.
Sarah Birken:
It's not a penis thing is what you're telling me.
Lisa Bodnar:
It's not, it's not, because everyone knows you use the eggplant for that. Everyone knows.
Sarah Birken:
There should just be a penis emoji!
Lisa Bodnar:
There could. Come on!
Sarah Birken:
Come on!
Lisa Bodnar:
Come on. And instead of using the peach, let’s just find a butt.
Sarah Birken:
Seriously, Can we just get a butt emoji? Come on! You know what also would be useful is if auto correct wouldn't auto correct fuck to duck.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay, here's the trick, you go in your contacts.
Sarah Birken:
You add a fuck?
Lisa Bodnar:
Yes.
Sarah Birken:
Because I'm never going to say duck.
Lisa Bodnar:
And ducking, you're never going to say ducking. Who says ducking?
Sarah Birken:
Who says ducking? I mean, some people are ducking away from, they're ducking responsibility.
Lisa Bodnar:
Oh, okay!
Sarah Birken:
But not very often.
Lisa Bodnar:
Sure. Yeah. And people are like, "Oh, here comes a beam!" And then they're ducking. But you never text that. You always mean fucking.
Sarah Birken:
It's always fucking, it is never ducking.
Lisa Bodnar:
It's never ducking.
Sarah Birken:
It sucks.
Lisa Bodnar:
And also shit turns to shot. Like, no, come on.
Sarah Birken:
They're also very coy about masturbation for whatever reason.
Lisa Bodnar:
Totally. I have texted that, M-A-S-T, and it doesn't come up.
Sarah Birken:
Even sexual, it's like, "Oh ... no ..." It leaves it blank, it doesn't even give you options! Yeah, Jesus.
Lisa Bodnar:
It's judgy.
Sarah Birken:
It is so judgy. It's like, " Oh, you shouldn't be writing that word to text someone, are you sure?" I'm sure!
Lisa Bodnar:
Oh yeah.
Sarah Birken:
Totally.
Sarah Birken:
Oh my god I love it.
Lisa Bodnar:
Sarah, thank you for being on my show.
Sarah Birken:
It was so much fun. I will spend an hour with you on a Friday morning drinking anytime.
Lisa Bodnar:
Anytime, I'm down for that too. Oh, Sarah, this is why I like you so much.
Sarah Birken:
I like you too. I think we're friends now.
Lisa Bodnar:
We're totally friends, now. It's official.
Sarah Birken:
Yay!
Lisa Bodnar:
You've sent me heart emojis, dude! Once you go there-
Sarah Birken:
It's, you've sealed the deal.
Lisa Bodnar:
You can't go back.