Lisa Bodnar:
So I'm wearing a dress, because I was like, "Oh, I should look cute,?" But I have sweatpants on under the dress.
Beth Linas:
That's so funny. I'm wearing a sweatsuit. This is a sweatsuit, but I did do my makeup because I was like, "I got to look good." I didn't have good lipstick. I was like, "I got to sort of look good."
Lisa Bodnar:
Well, you look lovely.
Beth Linas:
Well, thank you.
Lisa Bodnar:
Hello. Shiny Epi People, it's Lisa Bodnar. If you are new to the show, then welcome, I'm happy you're here trying this out. And if you've listened before, then, what's up? Welcome back. I'm honored you'd return to the show. Thank you for all of the engagement, support, and validation for last week's show and all the shows. It means a lot to me. It feels like we're having a conversation and really that's what podcasting is to me. You can find me on Twitter and I'm at Shiny Epi People and on Instagram you can send me a DM. My DMs are not open on Twitter because of some men who say some really weird shit. In fact, one offered to pay me to lick the souls of my shoes, so that's why my DMs are not open on Twitter. However, you can mention me in a tweet and you can also email me at shinyepipeople@gmail.com.
Lisa Bodnar:
To the patrons of the show, you have literally put your money where your mouth is to support me and I'm really grateful, thanks to the new patrons. If you could rate and review the show on your podcast app, that would be great. It helps me a lot and subscribe to the show, so you don't miss any episodes and if you can tell your friends about the show, I'm still selling Shiny Epi People, vinyl stickers, they're hexagon shaped with the show's logo, so send me a message if you'd like one. Also, if I get enough interest, I'm going to take orders for Shiny Epi People t-shirts, the ones that I sold back in the fall. So what I would do is bring them with me to SER [inaudible 00:02:10] and Chicago, so you wouldn't need to pay for shipping. I know that was especially an issue for folks who are overseas. I don't know what the cost will be yet because the more shirts I order, the lower the cost gets.
Lisa Bodnar:
But if you are interested in this, please email me and I'll start keeping track. Today, you'll hear my conversation with Beth Linas. Beth is an infectious disease epidemiologist whose research interests include substance use and reducing rates of fatal overdose. Her work also seeks to improve development and of digital health technologies to understand social determinants of health. Beth has a master's in health science and a PhD in infectious disease. Epidemiology from Johns Hopkins University. Beth has never worked in academia and I think she never plans to. She tells me about that path as well as about some of her work, communicating science during the pandemic, and we also talk about imposter syndrome, a topic that Beth has written and spoken about. I hope you enjoy this chat.
Lisa Bodnar:
Hi, Beth.
Beth Linas:
Hello. It's so exciting.
Lisa Bodnar:
I can't believe I'm seeing your face for the first time.
Beth Linas:
It is sort of wild. I agree. I feel like during the pandemic, I got to know a lot more people than I probably would've, hadn't not been home on Twitter all the time.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay. So many things to talk about. So you've been working for a while post PhD and you've never worked in academia and that was by choice. Can you talk a little bit about it?
Beth Linas:
Sure. Yeah. So when I got my PhD in epidemiology, I had known I come from the New York City Health Department and I had seen, sort of what they now call applied public health, I didn't know what that was at the time. And I knew then that I wanted to get the skills of an epidemiologist because I looked at them as tools and a toolbox. If you have the tools, then you can go where you need to go with your tools and help solve things. And so I went into grad school not wanting to stay in academia, which I had to sort of hide a little bit at the time. The primary reason to go and get a PhD was to become an academic and have your own research, but I had come from a health, and so I had seen sort of what you can do and how you translate stuff.
Beth Linas:
My last year of grad school, I was like, "Okay." I'd done a lot of informational interviews because I was like, "What am I going to do, I don't want to go home and live with my parents?" I was in Baltimore, which is close to DC and so I just started at every conference I went to, I talked to people that were not in academia from Fi360 or from Pew Charitable Trust. And I sort of started learning about these other nonprofits that do work and can use my skillset, but it wasn't actually until I met someone at a digital health conference that I really sort of shaped up what I was going to be doing. So I went into this digital health conference and I met Wendy Nielsen, who at the time was a program officer out of NIH for the new digital health work that they were doing. I always sort of admired her.
Beth Linas:
A year, went by and I sort of cold emailed her. I'm a big fan of the cold email and he went [crosstalk 00:05:38].
Lisa Bodnar:
Me too.
Beth Linas:
It's great. And I just said, "Hey I'm finishing school and I don't know what I want to do. I mean, government was always something I could do because I had come from New York City Health Department and she said, "Yeah. Come over." So I drove over from Baltimore to Bethesda and I had a conversation with her and she was the one that told me about this fellowship, AAAS Fellowship, the Science & Technology Policy Fellowship of which I didn't know anything about. I knew presidential management fellows, I knew EIS Officers, which is a little different, but I never heard of this. And it was run by AAAS and they are at editors that they create science, but I didn't know much beyond that.
Beth Linas:
And so I looked into it and it seemed really interesting to me because it seemed the purpose of the program is to bring PhD level scientists into policy and government and so I got it, I was great. And I went through this whole process, they brought me to DC in a hotel and then you go around to each of the agencies, basically they send your portfolio, your resume to all the agencies they work with AAAS works with and the agency looks and says, "Oh, we could use this skillset, we could use that skillset." And then AAAS really sort of believes in pushing a little bit of your boundaries and so not necessarily it's a match, so they have to match and you have to and they sort of believe you're a scientist, you don't have to just stay within your domain, we want you to learn, so we're going to push you a little.
Beth Linas:
So I ended up crazily interviewing back, I interviewed the National Science Foundation, which at the time I was like, "I did not know enough about it." The NSF mark, they asked for me to go work with them because in the smart and connect health program at the NSF, it is a program where engineers and basic scientists are sort of creating widgets and gadgets for health, but they need a health person to sort of help those researchers get their stuff evaluated or just have input and if it's impactful for health or that kind of thing. And so the AAAS Fellowship, that office always had one engineer and one sort of health person. And so the year that I started in 2015, I was that health person and NSF, I mean they take pride in foundational basic science, computer science, engineering, a lot of earth science, planetary science, and I was just like a fish out of water.
Beth Linas:
But the program of the AAS Fellowship and Science & Technology Policy Fellowship is for PhD trained individuals. And so I met, I think they're 150 in the class of my year and people that I probably would never meet in academia, so planetary scientists, lots of environmental type science, climate scientists, lots of different people, and I realized that I liked being around scientists of all different kinds, still had this desire to be in the public health space. And from the AAS Fellowship, it just really allowed me to spread out and meet who's in government and meet who is doing what, like the government contracts with a lot of organizations. And so you start to meet people that are sort of using their skills outside of academia and I really enjoyed it.
Beth Linas:
I enjoy the work, life, balance. I enjoy meeting other people that like I said, probably would never have met. And it also really spurred my science communication because we were sort of talking about the same thing. I thought we were talking about different things, but it was the same thing, we just weren't using the same words. I did the fellowship for two years. It was awesome. From there, I learned about an opportunity in all of this research program at a private company. Wasn't the best move for me, so I was only there for a year and then I went into a big organization that manages the federally funded research and development centers and I was there for three years and then I just had an opportunity to move over to RTI. So now, I'm in RTI and I'm doing a little more research than I was before and I'm back to doing opioid stuff, and public, and digital health stuff and applied public health. So it's great.
Lisa Bodnar:
So it still feels like applied public health, even though it's at a research Institute.
Beth Linas:
Yes. It does. I mean, because there are both grants and contracts, we work on both grants and contracts and so you get a little bit of both and you get to interact with the government a lot, you interface with them a lot. It's appealing to me to see that the work that I'm doing is going to be utilized. I enjoy that things I'm working on, I might hear about in the news, I'll be like, "I was part of that project team," or. "we're in the background, obviously." Yeah. And also there are so many jobs that need our skillset and they don't really realize that. And I think the pandemic absolutely showed that. Right?
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah.
Beth Linas:
So even from, so before the pandemic, but now, I mean, it's great. I'd listen to a podcast Standard Deviations with Roger Peng and they had talked about what's the difference between starting in a startup and having a lab. And when [inaudible 00:10:33] your lab it's like, "You're building your individual." And I realize I to be with a group of people working together on something, rather than trying to be on my own and build my research group. I also I'm like terrified of the concept of publish and parish.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah, sure.
Beth Linas:
... and the grant I'm just like totally, I'm super intimidated by it, which is ironic because now I am actually working on lots of grants and maybe it's because of where I trained, but I just feel much more sort of welcomed.
Lisa Bodnar:
Beth, your brother, Ben Linas, also does work in public health.
Beth Linas:
He is a professor at BU in medicine and in the school of public health and his work is primarily hepatitis C. The funniest thing about the fact that I'm in the same field as my brother, is I'm nine years younger than my brother, so the fact that we're actually sort of in this profession together is really the closest I've been with him, which is really cool. And then the other really funny thing that we like to talk about is how many publications I have because B. Linas is my brother and I'm B. Linas as well.
Lisa Bodnar:
Right. Oh, my gosh.
Beth Linas:
Yeah. So when I started grad school, my master's degree, like fourth month of my master's degree, there was a paper that came out about cost effectiveness of something Hep C-related, several faculty were like, "Did you write that paper? Oh my God." And I was like, "No. Of course not."
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. I barely know what a case control study is.
Beth Linas:
Exactly. We talked a lot about, he does infectious disease and we were always sort of talking, but now that I'm at my job that I'm at, I'm working on the exact same study he is on.
Lisa Bodnar:
No way.
Beth Linas:
And it's-
Lisa Bodnar:
Two Linases.
Beth Linas:
I definitely look up to him and I learn I've learned so much from him and it's really cool to sort of share it with him.
Lisa Bodnar:
So let's talk about science communications during the pandemic science communication has been so important, the public communications about science, which I think for you, correct me if I'm wrong is in your writing, social media, podcasts, can you just sort of summarize for listeners, some of that work that you've done during the pandemic and I'm particularly interested in maybe some of the lessons that you learned, would you share a little bit about that?
Beth Linas:
Yeah. Sure. So when the pandemic struck, people didn't know, they knew I was a scientist and I worked in public health because that's how I described it. I never really set epidemiology and then boom, the pandemic hits and people know epidemiology and a friend of mine was like, "This is like your Super Bowl, your World Series, your Olympics, all in one." And I was like, "Yeah. It sort of is." I have that in my handle on Twitter and so my initial sort of [inaudible 00:13:14] into COVID work was journalists were reaching out to me initially asking for my opinion on a paper or on another piece to which I was sort of, I started by saying "I don't have an opinion. I'm more than happy to walk you through this article about why it's strong, why it's not strong." And that's actually what I did for the first full year.
Lisa Bodnar:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). But your background is an infectious disease?
Beth Linas:
Yes.
Lisa Bodnar:
Right. My background is yes. I mean, I can't even tell you how many people I spoke to. It was the best opportunity, so I even was working behind the scenes with an organization that just really wanted someone to sort of parse through the literature and just sort of point out, "This is the study design is an association, did they account for everything? It sort of evolved. And I started, I actually had an interaction on Twitter with the Pollster Frank Luntz, he's a very big Republican pollster. Let's just say I don't share a lot of those sort of ideologies, but I realized that I was frustrated with some of the terminology, like lockdown. Words matter and we weren't locked down, we were being asked to stay home, we were being asked to socially distance or physically distance actually, because we don't, right, we don't.
Lisa Bodnar:
Right.
Beth Linas:
And so I had an opportunity to work with Frank and we did some polling around language with the diploma foundation, which is in also in Bethesda. And it just sort of really opened my eyes once I saw the results of these polls to see how much people were sort of A, hungry for good information. And also just not, we don't have high scientific literacy in our country. And also by working with this pollster who I really don't see eye-to-eye with, he was reaching a whole new audience, the other side of the audience, cliche, the other side of the aisle.
Beth Linas:
But I wasn't conceptualizing as it, Rs and Ds, I was conceptualizing it as like, if we can reach more peak and sort of get into the middle Americas or rural populations, that was what was exciting to me and that's sort of from there, I've just been sort of focused on mostly how we say and phrase things and how we think about what is good science and not.
Lisa Bodnar:
Pin to your Twitter account right now is an article that you wrote about imposter syndrome. And we talked about imposter syndrome before on the show. I'm really glad that people are talking about it now and becoming more aware of it and realizing that so many people have it. I was wondering if you could give a bit of background as to why that was important to you.
Beth Linas:
Yeah. I have always thought of imposter syndrome as a gender topic, because it's mostly spoken about in terms of women in the workplace. And then there was an article in the Harvard Business Review that was like, "No, no, no." I mean, yes, women talk about it more, but it affects everyone. For women that feel that it's not actually probably related to their feelings, it's probably just in the system where they're working. Yeah. That apparently when I sort of mentioned this whole gendered notion of it or men and women that hit a nerve, I mean, that was surprising to some people and so I was actually asked to write about it. It was, I had imposter syndrome writing it, right. Like I was like, "Why me? Why, why, why should I be the one that talks about this? I don't don't study this at all."
Beth Linas:
But I just I had a moment of like, "I've had lived experiences from beginning of grad school and I mean, I think anyone that's done a PhD or [inaudible 00:16:53]. I mean any post-college training, you have a moment where you're like, "What am I doing here?" That lived experience was something that I felt like I could talk about. I think, I live in a state of imposter syndrome. I will say I felt it far more on a daily basis while in academia, while training that when I stepped out of academia and I was part of the workforce. I learned that this hierarchy just because you're older doesn't necessarily mean, you mean you know more or are better at it. Whereas in medicine and public health, there's, you're an assistant professor and then an associate professor and full professor, so there's this built in hierarchy.
Beth Linas:
And because we are not flush with money in that system, I personally think that's sort of their currency. And I think if you're not in that space, it's very hard for you to understand it especially when the National Academies piece came out about women scientists and all the harassment women face, I mean, it wasn't surprising to women scientists at all, because we could see the power dynamic, there is a power dynamic at play. So I think stepping away and feeling like, "No. I actually have a voice and I can talk about this and allowing myself to do it was really cathartic. But it also I still live in a cons you know, this constant state,
Lisa Bodnar:
But it sounds like you're really working on it.
Beth Linas:
Oh, yeah. I'm working on it. And part of working on it was actually, when I was in roles of my jobs where I was both looked at as more expert and then not looked at as more expert. And there were times in my jobs, I was the only person at the table in the public health space. And so I was being given permission to be the expert or needing to be the expert and thinking like, "What?"
Lisa Bodnar:
I know.
Beth Linas:
And then you start to realize as you work with other people, what people's strengths and we can are, and you actually see like, "Oh, I actually do know a little more about this. I studied it."
Lisa Bodnar:
Does the anxiety come to you in other parts of your life that aren't work? Or is that really the place where you think it manifests the most?
Beth Linas:
I think it manifests the most in work and I actually think it's the most socially acceptable, the place to talk about it. I mean, my mind races a lot and I have a lot of thoughts and so I think in sort of my professional life, it's so much more acceptable to talk about anxiety and imposter syndrome and it does manifest itself in other areas of my life. Absolutely. Again, all the papers and grants we have to write, there's all these moments of people either judging you, or scoring you, or making a judgment, an opinion about you. I'm sorry, that's the thing, I say it's about me, but it's not. Right? It's about the work and so that's actually a big problem. I think it's about me and so in other places it comes up and it looks different.
Lisa Bodnar:
Thanks for sharing that.
Beth Linas:
Sure. Would really love otters to be home pets, to be pets.
Lisa Bodnar:
You want to domesticate them.
Beth Linas:
Yeah. And there was this whole thing I think earlier, or a couple years ago about a group of otters I think it's called a raft.
Lisa Bodnar:
That's so cute.
Beth Linas:
And they sleep on their backs and they hold hands when they sleep, so they don't float away from each other. They're so cute and actually very sweet, I've been reading up about them. My husband and I are like, "Can we have an otter?" You can't really have an otter because they need some open space and they can get a little feisty. I mean, I think it would be fun until a point you're like, "Well, what do they do?" You don't walk them, you just watch them. I don't know. So I watch otters on Reddit. And then the other for a really before the pandemic, I was really into pygmy hedgehogs and they're the little hedgehogs that have the spikes.
Lisa Bodnar:
They're cute.
Beth Linas:
They also can spread equal. Pretty, yeah, they are. But then I read about it and it was like, "I don't need that in my life." But yeah, no, I was really into it and I actually had a friend that had one. And so I got to have that in my life for a little bit, but yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
Good hand hygiene practices after that.
Beth Linas:
Yes.
Lisa Bodnar:
If you could wake up tomorrow having gained anyone quality or ability, what do you think it would be?
Beth Linas:
I would really like to have the ability to sing better.
Lisa Bodnar:
Oh.
Beth Linas:
Not professionally, just so I'm not... I think, I'm tone deaf. I mean, I am teased for my singing.
Lisa Bodnar:
Really?
Beth Linas:
I will jam out. I love top. Yeah. I know words to ridiculous songs and I [inaudible 00:21:41].
Lisa Bodnar:
How about just three lines, Beth? Just give me three lines.
Beth Linas:
Oh, no. I am so not singing on this podcast.
Lisa Bodnar:
Come on.
Beth Linas:
It's not singing. I don't sing. It's more like yelling and thinking about singing. The song that's running through in my head it's not suitable, it's, I like big butts.
Lisa Bodnar:
I was sort of wondering if that was okay. Yes. All right.
Beth Linas:
Which is one of those songs like, "I have an older millennial on that." It's I feel like a lot of people in my generation, like, "I know all the words in that song and I do not." [crosstalk 00:22:09]. So yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
Beth, would you rather eat a raw onion or two heads of raw garlic?
Beth Linas:
Are they any different? I feel as if they're the same.
Lisa Bodnar:
I think they're the same.
Beth Linas:
And a head, and a whole thing of onion.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. Of raw onion.
Beth Linas:
Maybe the garlic.
Lisa Bodnar:
Oh, the garlic.
Beth Linas:
I think it's the garlic only because it's smaller. Right? Like it's, you're just done with the cooker.
Lisa Bodnar:
It would be very bad for the rest of the day. I think no matter what, but when I think about eating a raw onion, I imagine eating it like an apple.
Beth Linas:
I know. So do I. That is so funny, I absolutely-
Lisa Bodnar:
So gross.
Beth Linas:
... I was thinking, I was like, "How would you do it? Would you cut it and do like the circle?" Yeah. Right. Yeah. No.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah.
Beth Linas:
Totally, I don't [crosstalk 00:22:57] need like an apple.
Lisa Bodnar:
Which is better turning on the shower at exactly the right temperature, or cutting a melon at the exact ripeness?
Beth Linas:
Melon at ripeness.
Lisa Bodnar:
So satisfying.
Beth Linas:
Yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
You're like, "I got it."
Beth Linas:
Yes. It's so satisfy. And then you could just like eat it all in the summer And then when it's not ripe it's a hummer.
Lisa Bodnar:
It's so disappointing.
Beth Linas:
Yeah. It's so disappointing
Lisa Bodnar:
And you're so mad at yourself, right?
Beth Linas:
For not waiting a little bit. Yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
Or I waited too long or avocado, the window is three in which an avocado is ready.
Beth Linas:
Yes. I agree.
Lisa Bodnar:
It's magic if you got it.
Beth Linas:
It is magic. If you got it with avocados, especially
Lisa Bodnar:
If you had to go a week without your cell phone-
Beth Linas:
This, I wish my, I cannot wait for my husband to
Lisa Bodnar:
I to say that you turned away and you couldn't even hold your face together when I said that.
Beth Linas:
No. Because it's literally one of the biggest sources of [inaudible 00:24:01], I mean, it's not constant. But when there is a discussion and my husband and I are sort of going back and forth, it's about the fact that I'm on my phone too much.
Lisa Bodnar:
But is it really? Yeah.
Beth Linas:
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, no, he understands that big part of it's part of my profession and I use but you know-
Lisa Bodnar:
Sure.
Beth Linas:
But you know, he's always a big proponent of unwinding and not like, your mind needs to turn off and relax before you go to bed, not good at that.
Lisa Bodnar:
So if you had to be without your phone for a week, Beth, are you okay listening to the rest of this question?
Beth Linas:
I mean it, yes. It, I am. Okay. Listening. I just have to hear, but the
Lisa Bodnar:
Question. Yeah. Okay. What would you miss the most about it?
Beth Linas:
Oh, I would miss the interaction and sort of what's going on in the world. I'm not a big social media [inaudible 00:24:56]. I mean, I use Twitter very deliberately. I am not a huge, I am on Instagram. I'm on Facebook.
Lisa Bodnar:
You said, "I'm not too much of a social media," and I'm just like to you like, "Come on."
Beth Linas:
I know. Well, so I, okay. So what I'm trying to say is that I am on Twitter all the time and I am talking and thinking, but when it comes to sort of, I don't look at social media as like, "And this is what I ate today, and this is what I wore today, and this is what my friends and I are doing." I am very impacted by that. I definitely have like, I totally can be like, "Oh, their life is so good and mine's so not sure," and it's like social media.
Lisa Bodnar:
So natural.
Beth Linas:
So those apps I wouldn't miss, I would miss sort of the comradery and connecting with people that are in what I do. I think I would just miss all of the texting with friends. It's just that's the most amazing way of keeping up with people like, "What would I do for a week?" Wait, do you realize that literally when you asked me that question, the first thing I went to is social media and nothing about my family and nothing about texting. Does that make me a horrible person? I don't know.
Lisa Bodnar:
It doesn't.
Beth Linas:
Okay.
Lisa Bodnar:
No. It doesn't.
Beth Linas:
No. I agree. I mean, that you're right. I would have to memorize people's phone numbers and call them on landlines, but people don't have landlines except for our parents.
Lisa Bodnar:
Oh, right. Landline, oh, I couldn't talk to anyone. It would be my personal hell. I really think a week without my phone.
Beth Linas:
I mean, I'm a talker, so phones were always going to be good for me.
Lisa Bodnar:
I was born in '76, we talked on the phone all the fucking time, like in my bedroom, just with the longest cord on earth and just walking around the whole place. I had this plastic hot pink phone, it was amazing.
Beth Linas:
We had one of those clear phones. You remember the clear?
Lisa Bodnar:
Oh, yes I do.
Beth Linas:
Yeah. Right. So you could see all the insides.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yes.
Beth Linas:
You could see all the insides and it would light up different colors. And we had two lines in my house growing up because my parents, at some point, my sister was on the phone so much and I have very vivid memories of picking up the phone and being like, "[inaudible 00:26:56] on the phone." And then [inaudible 00:27:00] down the stairs.
Lisa Bodnar:
I remember picking up the phone and very quietly and listening in on phone conversations and very quietly hanging up. I remember a lot of like my mom, picking up the phone and just starting to dial. And I'm like, "I'm on the phone.
Beth Linas:
Yes.
Lisa Bodnar:
I'm on the phone."
Beth Linas:
I was only big in like the star six, nine star, like hiding your number or like dialing people back. I wasn't a big prankster, but like for merging calls, big deal.
Lisa Bodnar:
Great. I'd like you to rank these chain restaurants in order from best to worst.
Beth Linas:
Okay.
Lisa Bodnar:
Chili's, Applebees, Olive Garden, and Cheesecake Factory.
Beth Linas:
I'll put a number one as Chili's, because I have many memories of going to Chili's. That was one of the places I could go by myself when I was young.
Lisa Bodnar:
Totally. What would you get when you'd go there? Do you remember?
Beth Linas:
Nachos, I think nachos, and their glasses were big, tall, blue bottom and clear and I could hold it. It made me feel I was like drinking a beer when I was 16 and obviously I wasn't.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. And they had really good fajitas, right?
Beth Linas:
Yes. They totally did.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah.
Beth Linas:
Yeah. Cheesecake Factory's number two. Cheesecake Factory if it wasn't so terribly bad for you, every single thing on that, is like over a thousand calories.
Lisa Bodnar:
It is like so much food and the menu is 55 pages long.
Beth Linas:
Yes.
Lisa Bodnar:
It's crazy.
Beth Linas:
But some of the stuff is good.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. I would've ranked them first by the way.
Beth Linas:
Oh, interesting. Okay.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. I would've anyway. Okay. Keep going.
Beth Linas:
I think should, yeah. Olive Garden. I love carbs, but even that is too much carbs for me.
Lisa Bodnar:
So are you going to say that you're going to put Applebees below the Olive Garden?
Beth Linas:
Oh, I forgot. Applebees was on the list. No. I'll put Applebees above Olive Garden.
Lisa Bodnar:
What I think of with the Olive Garden is heartburn.
Beth Linas:
Oh, yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
That's like, the first thing that comes to mind when I think of the Olive Garden and when I would was young, my ex-husband now, but we were dating at the time, we would go to the Olive Garden and we would get salad and breadsticks, that was our meal because we had no money. So we just went and got salad and breadstick, but we always would fight at the Olive Garden. And it eventually became a joke that we were like, "We have such heartburn, even from just the Italian dressing on the salad."
Beth Linas:
That is so funny.
Lisa Bodnar:
And we would just fight.
Beth Linas:
But it's funny, we're having this conversation because a really big running joke in my life with my husband is he wants to take me on a date to Red Lobster, "We're going to go to the Red Lobster tonight." We've never been by the way, which is actually really funny that he would say that because he was born and raised kosher and you don't eat shellfish. So I think in his mind, it's like, "Ooh, let's be rebels."
Lisa Bodnar:
Oh, their hush puppies are really good.
Beth Linas:
Yeah. No. I was going to say they sound like they have more fried stuff, which is definitely up my [inaudible 00:30:01] ally.
Lisa Bodnar:
Definitely. There were definitely.
Beth Linas:
I haven't really met a fried thing or fried potato that I haven't loved.
Lisa Bodnar:
Hey Beth, thank you.
Beth Linas:
This is so fun. I wish I could do it like every week. This is so cool. It's also really nice to feel I could let my guard down and be myself and not have to be like, "Epidemiologist."
Lisa Bodnar:
Just be ourselves.
Beth Linas:
Yeah. Totally.
Lisa Bodnar:
It was so such a pleasure to get to know you. I'm so appreciative that you would do this. Will you tweet about it? Will you [crosstalk 00:30:50]-
Beth Linas:
Oh, my God. Do you know me?
Lisa Bodnar:
... retweet.