Season 2 finale ends with a bang! Paris "AJ" Adkins-Jackson, PhD is a multidisciplinary health equity researcher and Assistant Professor in the Departments of Epidemiology and Sociomedical Sciences at Columbia University. She tells me how her career path moved from anthropology to studying impact of structural determinants of health on historically marginalized groups. She tells me about the richness of her life outside of work, including finding a home in music from childhood to today, and kicking butt boxing, We chat about looking for a co-parent, singing our grant applications, and fonts we hate. Thank you for all of your support this season!
Season 2 finale ends with a bang! Paris "AJ" Adkins-Jackson, PhD is a multidisciplinary health equity researcher and Assistant Professor in the Departments of Epidemiology and Sociomedical Sciences at Columbia University. She tells me how her career path moved from anthropology to studying impact of structural determinants of health on historically marginalized groups. She tells me about the richness of her life outside of work, including finding a home in music from childhood to today, and kicking butt boxing, We chat about looking for a co-parent, singing our grant applications, and fonts we hate. Thank you for all of your support this season!
Lisa Bodnar:
I can't wait to meet you in person. We've only been talking for a half an hour and I'm like, "Oh, but what is this going to be like when I get face to face with her?"
Hello, welcome back to Shiny Epi People. I'm Lisa Bodnar. Friends, today is the season two finale. I've put out about 20 episodes this season. I've met some amazing folks in our field. I introduced them to you and I shared conversations with longtime friends. I decided to take a pause on here because I really need to recharge my podcasting batteries. I know that you appreciate how much work the show is for me doing it on my own, and it's time for me to have a breather so I can come back ready to produce episodes that continue to be high quality.
At the same time as my work on Shiny Epi People, I have actually been very slowly on a new podcast with Sarah Birken. You may know Sarah as a co-host of the AcaDames podcast with Whitney Robinson. Our new show is called This Isn't About Him, and it's a podcast about how we've learned now, as divorced women in our 40s, that dating isn't about the guy. It's about our own self discovery. We laugh and share emotional stories, a lot like Shiny Epi People, and what we've learned about who we are and what we want in life. And we learned those things through dating. Sarah and I feel that the show will resonate with everyone, regardless of if you are dating, or over 40, or academics, or divorced. And we celebrate our friendship, which began when Sarah asked me to become her divorce fairy godmother 18 months ago, and we've talked every day since then. The episodes are like conversations that Sarah and I have on the phone, deeply personal, vulnerable, and pretty hilarious at times. We laugh, cry, and call each other out on our bullshit.
We plan to put out only about four episodes and then see where it leads. You can follow the show on Twitter at This Isn't About Him, where "about" is spelled "abt." Sorry, Twitter has character limits. And you can also find us on Instagram at This Isn't About Him with underscores between all the words. Again, lots of good handles already taken. We will be posting about the show beginning, maybe, in May. Again, I got to recharge before launching this. So please have a listen when it comes out. I'll post a trailer for the podcast here, in my Shiny feed also, as a reminder. So in the meantime, follow the show on your socials so that you can know when it finally drops. Importantly, this show will not replace Shiny Epi People in my life.
Thank you for all the support you've given me this season. Especially thank you to the patrons. I am looking forward to jumping back into this when the time is right and giving you more of what you came here for. I couldn't ask for a better episode to close out season two than with today's, as it is full of heart and laughter. My guest is Paris "AJ" Adkins-Jackson. AJ is a multi-disciplinary health equity researcher and new assistant professor in the departments of epidemiology and sociomedical sciences at Columbia University. AJ earned her PhD in psychometrics from Morgan State University. Prior to that, she received a Master of Public Health with an emphasis in applied biostatistics and epidemiology from Claremont Graduate University and a Master of Arts in cultural anthropology from California Institute of Integral Sciences. AJ's research centers on the impact of structural determinants of health on historically marginalized groups, like Black, Indigenous, and Pacific Islander communities. Her current research explores how a lifetime of exposure to adverse policing impacts Alzheimer's disease incidents in Black and Latinx communities in the United States. And for the last time in a little bit, I hope you enjoy this chat. Hi, AJ.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Hey, how you doing?
Lisa Bodnar:
I'm great. Welcome to the show. I'm thrilled that you're here.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Me too.
Lisa Bodnar:
So your first name is Paris, but people call you AJ or you want to be called AJ. Were you called Paris when you were younger?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Yes, I was called Paris until maybe 10 years ago.
Lisa Bodnar:
Oh, okay.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
I really, really cannot stand the name Paris. I've never ever liked that name. I try to smile when people say it, but in my head, I'm like, "What did you just call me?" So finally I just started enforcing AJ, and I found that it was helpful because it forces people to remember my last name more than they did before. So they're like, "AJ Adkins-Jackson," but I used to get all kind of variations before that. It works for me, just as long as you don't call me Paris. You want to make me upset, you call me Paris. And even my parents will pause before they call me Paris because they just want to get my attention, but otherwise they'll be like, "All right, AJ."
Lisa Bodnar:
Oh, that's amazing.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
I glad [crosstalk 00:05:45]. I didn't want to have to give you the look. Sometimes I'll just ignore people, and I'll let them just keep saying "Paris," and I'll just be like, "[Doo doo doo doo doo 00:05:53]." I can't stand that name. It would've been Tuesday though. That's what my name would've been.
Lisa Bodnar:
Wait, Tuesday? Isn't that the woman from The Munsters or The Addams Family?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
The Addams Family. Oh, love The Addams Family.
Lisa Bodnar:
Tuesday, right?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Tuesday.
Lisa Bodnar:
Isn't that her name?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
[crosstalk 00:06:13] a day of the week. Like today it's Tuesday. Oh my God, I couldn't have lived that down. Thankfully, my dad changed it. He was in fancy... He was in Paris, France on tour. My dad replaced Jermaine Jackson when he left the Jackson 5.
Lisa Bodnar:
Whoa.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
And he was in Paris and called my mom and was like, "If we ever have a daughter, we'll name her Paris." And I was like, "This story is"-
Lisa Bodnar:
And she'll hate it.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
And she'll hate it. And she'll hate it. I think he thought of that.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay. AJ, you had this whole career before you ever became an epidemiologist. You were an anthropologist. Were you on faculty somewhere in anthropology?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Yeah. Yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
What did you like most about being an anthropologist?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
I just like studying culture. I think that is probably the most important thing to me on earth, is studying how people do things, where they do it, why they do things. That's all the juiciness of life for me. I'm only in health to protect people to do all those things I love-
Lisa Bodnar:
Cool.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
... to experience and observe because it's pretty dope. Humans are awesome. Well, I taught biological anthropology, so I would teach evolution and I was one of those professors that had the skeletons in my classroom. And I actually would make it fun, where I would high the skeleton all over campus and it'd be a scavenger hunt.
Lisa Bodnar:
Oh my god.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
The library loved it because it always brought people to the library, but I would just hide it in these random places across campus and it'd be a whole day of it. All of my classes would go look for the skeleton and then they had to dig it up and-
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay. Which meant what?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Which meant they just had to find it in a chair or underneath a table or something, and then they wouldn't know what species it was. All they had was a list of the features, so the occipital bone may not have been formed. It might have had a sort of a spiky part to its brain and then you know that this is closer to our earliest ancestor than sort of the roundness we would have in our skull.
Lisa Bodnar:
I definitely knew that. Definitely.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Or I would say on the list it's... I forget the term we used to use for the big part of the toe. Oh, I'm losing the term, but it dictates whether or not you can walk, and so I would describe this feature in a way that would let you know that they more likely had trouble walking bipedally on two feet, and so then you knew earlier ancestor. So those kind of things I would leave as details at each site, and then they would have to write a report for me and predict what kind of species it was based on those features. So the way I characterized those days is I was a big proponent of thinking, and so I was the class that my colleagues would encourage students to take first when they got to college, like, "Take her class." I will help you to critically think through things, and so they would come back to class after doing that scavenger hunt, sit in class, and write the report in front of me, have me look over it, and I'd go, "Okay, well, what does that mean though? But what does it mean?" And they're like, "Man, you're trying to make me think." Exactly. [inaudible 00:09:53] think about it. Tell me what it means. I always had activities where you had to think. I had a myosis dance. They would break into groups and then they had to visually perform the process of myosis.
Lisa Bodnar:
I love it.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
It's a different way of thinking. You have to learn it and then translate it, and so there was always a spin involved. I don't know why they always do spins, but they really end up getting it then.
Lisa Bodnar:
As much passion as you have still in anthropology, how did you end up making the move to epidemiology?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
I was trying to do the higher ed thing because I was like, "Oh, I'm going to make a difference in higher ed." So I start taking these administrator level positions and creating programs and services to retain students from marginalized communities, and then I'd gotten really good at doing these kind of reports about retention that was like, "This is the average graduation rate of this," and so on and so forth, something your office of educational assessment would do, but then I reconnected when I did that work to my love of math that I had when I was younger that I had been dissuaded from following. So I was like, "There's something to this."
And then my best friend developed breast cancer again. I want to do something about it, but I'm not a lab person, so what can I do about it? And I had all these investigative skills. So I was like, "There's something called epidemiology... I don't know what that is but I think I'm going to apply to a program." And I did and got in and I went and spoke with them. I'd applied to several programs. I applied to dance and performance studies and I was like, "I want to do movement with cancer survivors." And they were like, "What? We don't do that. We don't do that." And I was like, "I'll go to ethnic studies." And they're like, "What are you talking... We don't do applied work." And then I went to this public health program, went on a tour, and I was like, "I want to do movement with cancer survivors." They were like, "So you're saying you want to increase the physical functioning of cancer survivors, which will impact their quality of life." Same words. Same words. That's what I'm talking about. Is that how you say it?
Lisa Bodnar:
One of the things that you said on the job talk video that you shared with me so I could learn a little bit more about you... One of the things you said was that you stopped studying cancer epi because it got too personal. There were too many people in your lives that were affected by cancer. Now, you're also doing racism work, which I'm sure feels very personal. How, kind of, are you able to tolerate this and maybe not the other?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Yeah. No, that's a... I've never thought of it that way, but I think it's probably because of the tools. So I ran into cancer epi without really thinking about it. I just wanted to do something and losing my best friend and so many other people just kind of hit me like, "But doing something isn't enough." I was so lost. I didn't know what I was doing, so I really relied on my methodological skills because at that point I was mixed methods and worked at USAID and kind of tried to gather myself and looked into the psychometrics program at Morgan. But within the first semester, I kept saying, "I just want a tool to help women self-assess what they need to do to heal themselves." And that's when self-care pooled out of me. After I got those psychometric skills, I was sort of thrust into all of this literature on structural racism as a post-doc and I was like, "You all want to measure this? I have the skillset. I got you." Randomly, my brain just reminded me that it's called a divergent big toe. That's what it's called that earlier hominins had that humans don't have. Our big toe is closer to the rest of the toes.
Lisa Bodnar:
Thank you. I wasn't going to sleep if I didn't hear that tonight.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
I clearly wasn't going to. My brain was like, "We are generating this information. Get it together."
Lisa Bodnar:
So, AJ, there is so much richness in your life outside of work.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
So other people have sort of been miserable because they're in social isolation, where my introverted self is like, "Yay. Stay away from me," but I also now really regret my career.
Lisa Bodnar:
What do you mean?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
I mean I think I got it wrong.
Lisa Bodnar:
Because music is really your passion?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
You spend a lot of time in all sorts of different areas of music, making music, performing music.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
I do. I do.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. Tell me more.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
I love me some music. I don't know what to say about it, but it's home. So this was something I was reflecting on earlier today because my trainer was complaining about my... I basically went into a tirade about Dr. Dre and-
Lisa Bodnar:
As one does.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
... because he just performed at the-
Lisa Bodnar:
I know. Right, the Super Bowl.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
At the Super Bowl. So this is the issue I have with Dr. Dre. Not saying the brother isn't talented. The brother is talented. It is undeniable. The brother [inaudible 00:15:28] the talent. He has it, okay? That is not questionable. What is questionable are the ad-libs to songs. That's what I have a problem with. Let me give you an example. It's this beautiful song taken from a spiritual, moved into R&B, "Swing down sweet chariot and let me ride..." The original is "swing low," but nonetheless, and Dr. Dre sung (singing), right?
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay. That's beautiful.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Beautiful. You're grooving to it. You're feeling good. You're in the car. You're hearing the song. It repeats. What does Dre do? "(Singing) Hell yeah." Why? Why? Who gave him the mic? This is not a friend of his. This is not a friend that would allow him to ruin songs like this. He does it in California Love too. There's some part where Tupac is talking about in California what we wear, and then Dre jumps in, "Yeah, that's right." Why? It was unnecessary. The whole song, he's making noises at the end of it. "Oh. Oh, California love." Even Tupac stops talking at some point in the song. Why is Dr. Dre's mic still on?
Lisa Bodnar:
Wait, so how did we get on Dr. Dre?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Oh, yes, because we were talking about this with my trainer. So I was thinking about junior high because he and I started talking about music and I started talking about how important junior high was for me because I was at the intersection of all these things. So I was within two different households. I was even in two different neighborhoods, and then I ended up in two different cities. So I'm from South Los Angeles, which was originally called South Central. It's south and central to LA County, and I was bused to the northern part of the county to go to music school and I couldn't really explain to my teachers what was happening to me, going back home and coming back. It was really a culture shock, and then at school, they didn't care what we were going through back home and I wanted someone to listen. So I really kind of buried myself in music, and I found alternative music. And Fiona Apple single handedly saved my life because listening to her... That's how I learned half of my vocabulary for Honors English, listening to-
Lisa Bodnar:
I know, right?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
... Fiona Apple songs, like, "Oh, what is that?" Just brilliant. And those kind of artists, her, Red Hot Chili Peppers... They were merges for me from R&B because they play a lot of R&B in their rhythm, and that's how I grew up, listening to my dad perform, going to music classes, music lessons, going to dance classes every day. I grew up like that, so hearing those melodies played out in alternative music then gave me an avenue to communicate with the kids. I was now going to school with Jewish kids. I had never gone to school with Jewish kids before. And so was like, "How do I... I don't know how to communicate with these kids. What am I doing?" And music became that. "You like Fiona Apple? I like Fiona apple. Okay, cool. Let's talk about Fiona. Oh, you like Sublime? I don't really like Sublime, but cool. That's a good song of theirs. (singing) Okay, right on."
That became probably the first time music was home. It wasn't just something I did. It wasn't just a skill I had. It wasn't just the way the school was abusing me because I really took it personal that they didn't care about my life but wanted me to perform every day. I felt like that was shady, like, "You want me to do what? Oh, I'm not..." I would intentionally read my books and not do my homework to fail so that I couldn't perform, like, "I'm not performing for you guys."
Lisa Bodnar:
Because performance was contingent on academic performance.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Yep. Yep. And they would try to threaten me with that, like, "If you're not going to perform, then who are you going to be?" I'm going to be myself. What are you talking about? You all crazy. I'm going to keep being me and tomorrow too. I'm going to be okay, but if you don't care about all of me, then I'm not doing what you want. I'm just not, so get somebody else to do this show. If they had just given me space to go, "Back in my neighborhood, there's no grass. Your neighborhood has grass. Can we talk about it? Back in my neighborhood..." There was an incident where I ran home from one of the local gangs. And not all the gangs are like this so I do have to say that, because I grew up in another area where the gangs were not like this at all, but this particular time they were trying to bully my brother. And so they thought they would hurt me to bully him, and I tossed my trombone as I was running home.
And the school was so... I will never forget my band director, red face, jumped in my face, screamed at me, yelled at me. And I'm trying to tell her like, "Ma'am, I just ran home. No, I didn't run home with that trombone. I tossed that. I don't know where it is, ma'am. I ran home." And they didn't get it. If they just had given me space to go, "I don't know how to reconcile all these things I'm seeing and going through." My Jewish friends were telling me about discrimination. I was learning about the Holocaust at the same time. I didn't know how to process that information. No one would talk about it. They'd just cover it in history class, and then I'd walk out and my friends are like, "Man, these kids discriminate against us." And I'm like, "I don't know how to talk about it with them. I don't know how to work through how I feel about it."
Anne Frank's book changed me. I read that book and was messed up in the head for a while, like, "What happened to this girl? You're trying to tell me millions of people... This happened to millions of people, and you want me to go play after this period... my instrument? Can someone sit down with me?" If they had just given me that, then I might have figured out how to filter my pain into my music, into dance, in a way that didn't catch up to me in my late 30s. I would've made a career out of it, but I spent so much of my time just being like, "No, you all don't really care about the artist. You all don't really care about the person behind the work, so I'm not giving you my work." Now, I feel differently. I'm like, "Man, if I have to leave this earth because of COVID, I hope I was in somebody musical, (singing), something." Now, I'm all about it, like, "Put me in there. Somebody, put me up in there. I'm not going to heaven not having been in a musical."
Lisa Bodnar:
What kind of feelings do you get sort of before, during, or after performing that draws you to it?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Probably during is most important. I just leave it all out there. I just say what I have to say, and I don't have to worry about rereading the article six months later and being like, "I should've said this." I never have those problems when I perform. When I perform, I put it all out. Every little piece, gunk, anything is out there. It's just the truth that it is in that moment, and I just leave it there. That's it. We once did a show... I was with a dance company. We performed and we got so much love from the audience. We jumped up and down and screamed on stage and our director was so angry. She was like, "What did I teach you all?" And we're just like, "Yeah, we did it." I think it's that moment when you connect that the audience got what you were trying to portray, and they're like, "I see you."
Lisa Bodnar:
This is probably a silly question, but do you get any of that from presenting your work at conferences or... No, none of it. Okay.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
None of it. I use those tools. When I have to present, I put on my face. I figure out, "What am I trying to communicate?" And I come back to that, so I use a lot of those principles, but I don't feel the same way. It's not like, "You got me. You heard what I had to say." I'm like, "This is the job. This is the job."
Lisa Bodnar:
Well, if I'm in the audience for a talk you give, I'm going to give you a standing ovation and I'm going to clap like this and be like, "Yes, AJ, I got you."
AJ Adkins Jackson:
I cannot wait.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah, or if I can be virtual, I will turn on my camera and I will give you so much validation. I am here for that, okay?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Thank you. Thank you.
Lisa Bodnar:
And anyone listening, we expect you to give AJ some mad props, as if she were singing.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Thank you. Thank you.
Lisa Bodnar:
If you don't want to do this, don't do this. Could you sing a couple of lines of your research?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Hmm. Oh God, that would require me to actually aggregate my research in my mind.
Lisa Bodnar:
Or just an objective of some of your work.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
(Singing).
Lisa Bodnar:
[Woo 00:25:40], yes. I felt you. Thank you.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
That aim does not make sense, by the way. I was trying to aggregate two aims in my head, like, "Let me pull this aim from that aim and put it together."
Lisa Bodnar:
It didn't matter if it made any sense. I wasn't even listening to the words. I was just listening to your voice. It's so pretty.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Thank you. Thank you. I hope that works on my review committee. Hope they sing the words off the page. All right. Yes.
Lisa Bodnar:
I like that.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Fundable score. Fundable score.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah, you need an MP3 that goes along with-
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Yes.
Lisa Bodnar:
... your grant. Why don't we institute that?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Exactly. I agree. That would be dope.
Lisa Bodnar:
It's like an audio book of your grant.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative). We're onto something.
Lisa Bodnar:
Are we the first people that have ever thought of this?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
What do we do with these kinds of ideas? Because I come up with this stuff all the time. I'm trying to plot and plan on having a kid and the only options for these things are you get with someone that you're not ready to love [inaudible 00:26:55] a baby or you give up the right to have a co-parent and get a donor. Why are these the options? I always think of things, like a brilliant co-parenting site, where you audition co-parents. "Would you like to have a child? Well, let me check your intergenerational trauma because if it's too much... it's just as much as mine, then we can't do this. This kid is going to be messed up, but we can go to therapy together and really see if we would be great co-parents." Why doesn't this exist? Where can we put these ideas?
Lisa Bodnar:
We need the equivalent of a dating app but a co-parenting app, right?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
I read the little paragraphs that they provide and that's where I get the trauma from because I read it and I'm like, "Daddy issues. Uh-uh (negative). Can't have that." So I wish that we could have a site where people could really just have that kind of information because how they look... I don't really care, but I do care if my kid is going to have some epigenetic trauma they're holding onto because their daddy didn't work through their issues with their grandpa. Don't ask me about that, okay?
Lisa Bodnar:
Well, I believe what would be helpful is a letter of reference from... Right? Or a letter of reference from your therapist. So first of all, do you not have a therapist? That's really important to know.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Very important.
Lisa Bodnar:
If you have a therapist or had a therapist, I would like to know what they... This is HIPAA violation all over the place, but I would want to know, did you work through your stuff or were you just this mess that never really did the work, right? That's what I know.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
It could be like the internet bar situation, where it tells us how much internet use we actually have or connectivity. How much have they worked through their trauma [crosstalk 00:29:01] on a different issue? Or maybe we should also get information from the parents.
Lisa Bodnar:
Right.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Because you're going to have to deal with them too.
Lisa Bodnar:
Well, if anyone's listening-
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Yes. [crosstalk 00:29:15].
Lisa Bodnar:
... who would be a good co-parent [inaudible 00:29:18]...
AJ Adkins Jackson:
You're out here to recruit co-parents and I'm like, "Get this site together and I will join."
Lisa Bodnar:
And I'm like, "No. No."
AJ Adkins Jackson:
I'm starting at the bottom.
Lisa Bodnar:
And I'm going directly to the horse's mouth. If anyone would be willing to be a great co-parent with AJ, don't call her Paris and you're golden.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
And don't call me... And don't ad-lib like Dr. Dre, "Hell yeah."
Lisa Bodnar:
That's right.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Horrible.
Lisa Bodnar:
Oh my God. Okay, so something I was surprised to learn about you is that you enjoy martial arts and you box.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Yeah. Boxing... I don't know why I box. So what I like about it is he's a bassist, my trainer, and so he understands me musically.
Lisa Bodnar:
Oh, cool.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
And so, often, he'll give me boxing routines that are very rhythmic.
Lisa Bodnar:
I love that.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
The other thing that I hate the most about him that is the most helpful is that I'm very sarcastic, but he has sort of a moratorium on my sarcasm when I box because I'm open emotionally when I'm boxing and when I'm working out in general. And so he's like, "No negative talk." And so I'll make little jokes like, "Oh, well, it's hard to swing around. I'm a big girl." And he'll be like, "Okay, we're not going to talk like that." And so what it forces me to do is have different kind of thoughts when I work out, so that if there's anything going to stick to me, it's those thoughts.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah, that's cool.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
And he's a big hype you up person, but today, he was just on point today when we were boxing, hyping me up and he was like, "Yeah, come on. Come on. Faster. You got it. You got it." I'm like, "[inaudible 00:31:19]." I got some [inaudible 00:31:19].
Lisa Bodnar:
You know what? I need that just when I'm parenting, someone to be like-
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Yes.
Lisa Bodnar:
"Yeah. Did you see that? That was awesome parenting. Do that again."
AJ Adkins Jackson:
And why isn't Alexa doing this? What is Alexa's job? What is Alexa's job? Just to eavesdrop?
Lisa Bodnar:
Right. Yes.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Why isn't Alexa giving affirmations?
Lisa Bodnar:
Alexa is always just telling me that my package arrived and then... Right? And then suggesting something dumb. "Did you know that I could tell you a knock knock joke?" And I'm like, "I don't care. I don't want that. No one asked you."
AJ Adkins Jackson:
No one asked you. That would be my response. Did I ask for this?
Lisa Bodnar:
I know. So Jenny Weave wanted to know, who is your dream music collaborator?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
I think it's expected that I would choose Red Hot Chili Peppers because I love Flea, who is the lead bassist for them, but I'm going to go with Daveed Diggs. Do you know who he is?
Lisa Bodnar:
Yes.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
I love me some Daveed Diggs.
Lisa Bodnar:
Who doesn't?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
I love me [crosstalk 00:32:30]. Yes, absolutely. Have you seen his TV show, the one that he produces?
Lisa Bodnar:
No.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
He has one on, I think, either Showtime or HBO, but it's so beautiful. It's a story about these families trying to live in poverty and survive in the city in the Bay Area, and then it breaks into these moments of dance that are just beautiful.
Lisa Bodnar:
What's it called?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
I don't remember. Point something? But it is brilliant. It has him all over it. When you see it, you're like, "This is a Daveed Diggs production." I would love to collab with him on my musical because I am writing a musical.
Lisa Bodnar:
You are? You're writing one?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Yes, on evolution.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yes. Will you have early homo sapiens? [crosstalk 00:33:20] got the right-
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Yes. I'll have homo erectus up in there, australopithecus afarensis. It is going down.
Lisa Bodnar:
I'm totally down for this musical, an anthropological musical. And if you're going to make me go on a scavenger hunt before, even better.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
That's a great idea, an interactive musical.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay, so tell me this. You talked about performance. Would you be a good mime?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
No. I laugh too much. I laugh way too much.
Lisa Bodnar:
You do. You would be terrible.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
I'd be horrible. And I break out into laughter randomly. I also break out into dance randomly. I'm that woman that you see in the grocery store dancing in the aisle and you're like, "Does she hear something I don't hear?" And I won't. I won't have headphones in my ear. Just be me. I'll start snapping, like (singing). I just groove to myself. It's ridiculous.
Lisa Bodnar:
I love it. Okay, I'm going to list a few things and I'd like you to tell me yes or no. JLo.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Absolutely yes. Always.
Lisa Bodnar:
Totally. Do you remember when she sang during the inauguration and at the end of [inaudible 00:34:52], "Let's get loud." Was she singing the national anthem or America the Beautiful or something? And then she's like, "(singing)."
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Which I loved. Which I loved, absolutely. Be your authentic, quirky, beautiful self. Absolutely, I'm JLo all the way.
Lisa Bodnar:
Root beer flavored candy.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Why?
Lisa Bodnar:
I know, it's gross.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
I love root beer. Why would you ruin it?
Lisa Bodnar:
The crust on pizza, yes or no?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
No.
Lisa Bodnar:
No?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
No.
Lisa Bodnar:
You're one of those people that leaves all the crust behind.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
I'm not a bread person.
Lisa Bodnar:
The beach.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Oh, absolutely. I live for the beach.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. Black licorice.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
No, that is so disgusting.
Lisa Bodnar:
I know. It's so disgusting. My 10 year old daughter is all about the black licorice. I'm like, "Where did you come from?"
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Oh my God. Does she swallow it down with something?
Lisa Bodnar:
No.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Oh my God.
Lisa Bodnar:
No, just licorice, like jelly beans. Give her all the licorice ones.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
[crosstalk 00:36:06].
Lisa Bodnar:
It's gross. Serena Williams.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Absolutely yes. I was just listening to Beyonce's Sorry today and laughing. Serena Williams is in the video for it, because I think it's the most hilarious song because she's like, "(singing)." That is so hilarious to me because you don't even wait, like, "(singing)."
Lisa Bodnar:
And she just says it over and over again. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative). It's awesome.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
That cracks up every time I hear it, like "Anyone else hear this? Okay, well then..."
Lisa Bodnar:
Times New Roman font.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
I used to be all about that life. Now, I'm all in my Arial and I know everyone hates it. They're like-
Lisa Bodnar:
You're Arial? Are you Arial 11 point?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
Are you? Okay, how do you feel about... I don't know how to say this. Calibri? Calibri? What is it? The default now in Word.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Oh, yeah. [crosstalk 00:37:12] the default one.
Lisa Bodnar:
But how do I say it? I don't know. I'm going to sound like a dumb ass saying this, I think.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Has anyone ever even spoken those?
Lisa Bodnar:
Right. No.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
No one knows.
Lisa Bodnar:
You just write it if you're going to say anything about it.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Exactly. Exactly.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay, but how do you feel about it?
AJ Adkins Jackson:
It's whack. I immediately change it.
Lisa Bodnar:
Comic Sans.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Oh, I feel like I saw this on an advertisement, so it's not a yes but not a no.
Lisa Bodnar:
I think a pretty universally hated font, except Jake Hoffman uses it.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Oh, I so thought that it was this comic book that I saw recently, called Sands. You're talking about the font.
Lisa Bodnar:
So sorry. Oh my God. Because we were on the phone-
AJ Adkins Jackson:
I was thinking the comic, Sands.
Lisa Bodnar:
We were going through fonts.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
I was like, "Yeah, I just saw an ad for that, girl."
Lisa Bodnar:
Oh my God.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
"Yeah, you've seen it? Oh, you've read it? Did you read all of them?"
Lisa Bodnar:
Oh my God.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Comic Sans sucks in a font. It sucks. It's too round.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. Yeah. Hey, AJ, I'm thrilled that we got a chance to know each other. This has just been the most wonderful hour... Well, we're on two because it took us so long to get here. This has just been such a pleasure for me. Thank you.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
Thank you. I appreciate it. And I appreciate you for even having this podcast because it's nice. I get to know so many different people in the field, and then probably more personal to me, because everything for me is about the relationship that I have-
Lisa Bodnar:
Me too. Me too.
AJ Adkins Jackson:
... is that it's provided so many of my friends a space of mental healing, that they're always on me about this podcast, like, "Did you see who was on Shiny Epi this week?" And I'm like, "I did not wake up on a Saturday and listen in the morning like you, okay? I woke up at 4:00 PM on a Saturday because this is what I do on Saturdays, okay?" But I just love the joy in their voices when they talk about it, so thank you for giving my friends, people I care about, nourishment.
Lisa Bodnar:
That's why you're so joyful. You're just so full of energy. I'm never going to sleep tonight, AJ, because I'm just going to... I have you infused in me and it's three times the amount of very high energy I normally bring into of the world, and so...