Erika Braithwaite is a PhD-trained epidemiologist who decided to go against the grain and find happiness by using her degree to start an analytics business. She talks about her struggles in her doctoral training and how she ended up an entrepreneur. Hatred of camping, sweating maple syrup, nostalgic tv and other fun stuff also come up!
Erika Braithwaite is a PhD-trained epidemiologist who decided to go against the grain and find happiness by using her degree to start an analytics business. She talks about her struggles in her doctoral training and how she ended up an entrepreneur. Hatred of camping, sweating maple syrup, nostalgic tv and other fun stuff also come up!
Lisa Bodnar:
I've only seen like one photo of you and it was a work photo, very professional.
Erika Braithwaite:
Yeah. I think in the entrepreneurship startup community now everything's very polished and I have to be very careful about the stupid things I put on online, so.
Lisa Bodnar:
I hear you. I'm full of stupid things online.
Lisa Bodnar:
Hi, everyone. Welcome to Shiny Epi People. I'm Lisa Bodnar, an epidemiologist at the University of Pittsburgh. Today I'm speaking with Erika Braithwaite. Erika earned her PhD in epidemiology and biostatistics from McGill University. Erica received tremendous training at McGill, but she felt that academia wasn't the right place for her. So she went against the grain and decided to be an entrepreneur. She and a fellow graduate of epi biostats at McGill co-founded a startup called Precision Analytics. The company specializes in analytics and data visualization in the biopharmaceutical sector. They provide expertise in study design, predictive modeling, and causal inference analytics and customized software platforms for health data science. We know that academic jobs are dwindling and epidemiologists need to consider other career paths. Entrepreneurship is one of those paths.
Lisa Bodnar:
After Hailey Banack was on the podcast, she suggested I talk with Erika because of Erika's has unique experience. I'm so glad I connected with her because she not only describes the mechanics of how she got to her current position and what her company does, she also shares the crisis she had during her doctoral training when she realized that academia wasn't for her and how she had to go through a dark time in order to find her way to where she would be happiest.
Lisa Bodnar:
As with all of the wonderful Erika Braithwaites I've had on this show, Erika gave me so much interesting information that I wish I could include in this episode. So if you're interested in looking into entrepreneurship, do a YouTube search on Erika Braithwaite and you'll see her speak in more detail about her work. I hope you enjoy this chat.
Lisa Bodnar:
I'm on with you. I'm so excited.
Erika Braithwaite:
Yeah, it's going to be really fun. I'm really excited about this. I thought it was an interesting ask because I was like, "Oh, am I Epi? How Epi am I?"
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. Why don't you think your Epi?
Erika Braithwaite:
I guess, because I jumped ship, I came from a super academic background and I went to a school that really emphasized, and pushed, and valued that traditional academic path. It felt like a deviation into the dark side.
Lisa Bodnar:
Really?
Erika Braithwaite:
Yeah, because I came from social epidemiology and I loved it. I love social policy. I love thinking about issues and disparities and the things in the world that like mattered to me a lot, including race especially. And to start a consultancy that was pretty geared into biotech and the biopharma spectrum, which was obviously outside of my research background felt, yeah, a bit treasonous.
Lisa Bodnar:
The podcast that I recorded with Hailey, we spent most of the time discussing how your career choices can really disappoint people, and how terrible that can feel.
Erika Braithwaite:
Yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
When you were in the middle of training, or when you started out your PhD, did you have a sense of what your career was going to look like after that?
Erika Braithwaite:
[inaudible 00:03:56] starting, I think like most people, you come in, like I was bright-eyed, bushy-tailed. I thought I'd have like this really bright academic career because I really did love research. And that actually hasn't changed quite honestly. But I think midway, I had like a complete existential crisis and really it was multifaceted. Like I had sort of given up my identity and put all of my self worth into school. Then I realized, I was like, "Oh wow, this isn't making me happy. But if I'm not this, then I'm nothing." Right? And that was like a really deeply depressing time for me, because then I was like, "Well, what next?" I can't leave a PhD halfway through. No one gives a fuck about half of a PhD. It's not a thing. And I was like, "I'm going to blow my brains out if I have to continue years of this, when I'm so miserable." So it was very difficult. Like I hated writing. I was like, "Oh wow. That's like kind of the big part of the job." I was like, "Dang, this doesn't really play on my strengths."
Erika Braithwaite:
And then I realized what my strengths really were. During my PhD, I was like tutoring and doing freelance consulting. And I was like, "I love working with people. I love solving people's problems. And I want to hold you with your data and just sooth your research problems." I like this anecdote a lot. I went to the career kind of center that most universities have. They build you a matrix where they lay out sort of five domains of employment. So like government, academic, nonprofit, industry and entrepreneurship. So I went through. You just talk about like, "Do you like money? Do you like risk? Do you like freedom of thought and that autonomy?" And I was like, "I want autonomy. I want buttloads of money. I don't care about security."
Erika Braithwaite:
And so we had gone through this process of elimination and the career advisor was like, "Oh, you should be an entrepreneur." And I was like, "Well, that doesn't make any sense. And you've been terribly unhelpful." And I just look left and I dropped the idea because I had no model or framework to even conceive what that would look like. If I had gone to my advisor and been like, "How do we started a company?" Like he say, "Get out! Here's the door." And rightfully so. It's not where their training is. They can't give advice about that.
Erika Braithwaite:
So hearing about other people's paths, it's important. But everyone needs only has their own path and looking outwards to understand where you need to go next I think is a path to being unhappy.
Lisa Bodnar:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Absolutely.
Erika Braithwaite:
You sort of have to look at your own life and your own strengths and what you enjoy and make the decisions from there. Making decisions that you know that the people you respect aren't wouldn't do and being able to really justify it besides it'll make me happy. And for a lot of people that's not enough. You know, you tell them what you decided and they're like, "Oh, but you could have done this safer thing. You could have done this more lucrative thing. Couldn't you find happiness outside of that? Couldn't you find a regular job in, I don't know, quilts or something." I was like, "No."
Lisa Bodnar:
No, quilting sucks.
Erika Braithwaite:
Yeah. So I had to decide what my values were and where I wanted to put my energy and the sacrifices I was willing to make. And it turns out that the sacrifices I willing I was willing to make are not the same as other people. And that's okay. Then I stumbled through my PhD.
Lisa Bodnar:
What does that mean, stumbled through?
Erika Braithwaite:
I just couldn't publish anything. I couldn't do all the things that you're supposed to do. I loved working with people and I was like working on the side on other projects that I loved. Every time I had to write and think about publication, and it wasn't just that I was bad at it. I think I didn't believe in the mechanism. My thesis was about health disparities resulting from mass incarceration in the U S. And so I was really interested in social policy and the sentencing policies that led to health disparities. And it was just like, "Hey, spoiler alert, this is bad for black people."
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. I'm out. Wait a minute [inaudible 00:08:24].
Erika Braithwaite:
Is that it? Does anyone?
Lisa Bodnar:
Who cares?
Erika Braithwaite:
Ah, yes, I do.
Lisa Bodnar:
It was both the skill set that you felt like maybe a little uncomfortable with a part of it. And then also you wanted to make more of an impact?
Erika Braithwaite:
Yeah. And I needed to see the end user of what I was doing. I think I need to see a face in front of me. When you work with people who are not strong in statistics and you have that gentle touch and when you can help them their eyes light up and they're so grateful. And I was like, "I think I need this kind of like daily, hourly, positive reinforcement."
Lisa Bodnar:
It's so lovely that you figured it out early.
Erika Braithwaite:
And I say that now with a lot of pride. But at the time it felt like I was at the depths of confusion and sadness. I lived a lot of anxiety. It wasn't a good space. And I think my mother had told me during these times of confusion and loss and darkness, it's just like the universe lining up the things where you're heading and you can't know that. And I couldn't have known until I finished. And now that I started a company, and having these credentials, they did open a lot of doors. So it was all for something. But you know for several years I had no clue what this was all going to bring me. It was very hard.
Lisa Bodnar:
So Erika, the reason that I wanted to have you on is because you're the co-founder and CEO of an analytics company, and that's just fucking cool. Your job is like 100 times cooler than my job.
Erika Braithwaite:
I hate to burst the bubble, but I left academia and I was like, I'm never writing a grant again. And I like sassed my way out. I write grants all the fucking time. Okay?
Lisa Bodnar:
Really?
Erika Braithwaite:
Oh, yes.
Lisa Bodnar:
It seems like the other parts of it really nurture you in a way that academia really couldn't.
Erika Braithwaite:
Yeah, that's 100% true, and I feel more myself than I ever have. And it's still stressful. I have no job stability. I see all my friends who chose the academic track and all of my friends turned out to be extremely successful, which is really annoying when you feel like a hot piece of shit. But I love it so much. The comparison is really difficult, but I'm still happy.
Lisa Bodnar:
Do you feel like you're a hot piece of shit now, or that you just have less security?
Erika Braithwaite:
Both.
Lisa Bodnar:
Both?
Erika Braithwaite:
Yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
Really? What is that about Erika? You're a co-founder and a CEO of something.
Erika Braithwaite:
It's a multifaceted thing where I didn't pick a path where the next five years were sort of laid out for me. I think about my friends who are on the tenure track and their strategy is about moving towards that path. I'm really impressed by them. When you're running a startup, it's like where's my ass and my face tomorrow? And I think it's just a lot more grit that like pulls us through rather than having like a whole institution that tells us we can't be fired. Like I could be fired tomorrow. I could fire myself. The insecurity is real.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. That must be scary.
Erika Braithwaite:
Yeah. But I spoke to my career advisor and she was like, "How do you feel about risk?" And I think it's like, I think I love it so I guess I made the right choice.
Lisa Bodnar:
It's so strange to me that you feel like you're a hot piece of shit. What in the world is up with that? You're successful.
Erika Braithwaite:
I remember in my PhD feeling really dumb. I did myself a favor by sort of online dating and having that be a way to meet people outside of my circle. I was seeing this one guy and I was complaining about how dumb I felt. And he was like, "Have you ever spoken to someone without a PhD? Like when was really the last time you had a conversation with someone who wasn't as, or more smart as you?" I was like, "Ah, yes." But then we've created these like tight circles of equally or more smart people.
Lisa Bodnar:
So what does your company do?
Erika Braithwaite:
It was a bit of a journey. Kathryn Morrison is my co-founder, and she's a fellow PhD from the epi program at McGill. We were both freelance consulting. We just started building a stronger client base. Then we ended up sort of getting into more the technical work. Like people would come with their data and say like, "Oh, I need this model." And we're like, "Well, show me your data." And it would be like an issue box. And it was like, "Okay, well first we're going to build you a database." So it slowly morphed, unbeknownst to us, into a software company. So it's a blend between like building software. That's like storage and analytics and viz, and then having completely bespoke for each client. So it's heavy on the consulting and really not a kind of black box tool.
Lisa Bodnar:
Who comes to you with questions?
Erika Braithwaite:
Insanely smart people who are just lacking sort of like the, quote unquote, data science department. So we end up being kind of like an outsourced data science department. We have software developers on the team, statisticians, epidemiologists, and then people with math and stats backgrounds. So together we make like a person who probably doesn't exist.
Lisa Bodnar:
Could you give me an example of a project that kind of came from start to finish and maybe why you're proud of it, or why that's the kind of thing that you love?
Erika Braithwaite:
One of our first clients came to us with genetics data. So it's like terabytes and terabytes of DNA strings. He came to us and was like, "I tried to open it in Excel and it crashed my computer." I was like, "Okay."
Lisa Bodnar:
Whoa. Okay.
Erika Braithwaite:
So it was like this really big technical problem of massive amounts of data. They were generating tons of it all the time so they needed really specialized data pipelines and analytics. They were doing sort of cancer drug discovery and so lots of sort of novel statistical algorithms that they wanted. And it turned out to be sort of the research tool for their entire team where they enter data, extract data, see their analysis, have different kinds of reporting systems. So the CEO gets to see how the whole company performing, and different departments have sort of their own versions of the platform. So we're still working with them and it makes me incredibly proud because I think we've really helped transform and systematize their workflows, and reduce errors, and increase efficiency. So I'm really proud.
Lisa Bodnar:
How do you get your name out there? How do people know about you?
Erika Braithwaite:
A lot of word of mouth. We've been really lucky. I think we have a really strong network of people we've worked with who are really good at spreading our name. And yeah, we're just really lucky. We've just been so fortunate.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. And I don't think it's luck. I think that it is skill. We women like to call it luck but it's not. Right? It's not luck. You've got what it takes. Do you work tons of hours?
Erika Braithwaite:
No.
Lisa Bodnar:
Oh!
Erika Braithwaite:
Kathryn and I decided that balance was key. Overtime is not allowed. If we allowed one person to do it, it could create inequity in the team if people felt guilty and felt like they were overcompensating to work extra. So it was like, no one is allowed to work evenings or weekends.
Lisa Bodnar:
Wow. What an awesome model. Run by two women. [inaudible 00:15:59].
Erika Braithwaite:
[inaudible 00:16:03].
Lisa Bodnar:
What makes Kathryn a good teammate?
Erika Braithwaite:
Oh, she's just like my wife. She's just like everything. We're just at this point so merged. She's smarter than me in every single way. We are great at communicating. I think we see eye-to-eye, but then we were able to push each other and disagree. Yeah. And she loves what she does too. So that helps. We're both really happy. Like a champion, right? It's your sanity checker. You're like, "Is this email gaslighting me?" And I need someone to be like, "Yes, that person is gaslighting you." I'm like, "Thank you." You just need those moments.
Lisa Bodnar:
I want to go on to the fun stuff.
Erika Braithwaite:
Oh, excellent.
Lisa Bodnar:
What old person things do you do?
Erika Braithwaite:
Complain.
Lisa Bodnar:
Is that an old person thing?
Erika Braithwaite:
Because I complain about things that don't matter. I'm just like, "I hate mulled wine."
Lisa Bodnar:
It's so stupid.
Erika Braithwaite:
Just gratuitous complaining.
Lisa Bodnar:
Anything else?
Erika Braithwaite:
No, I think in every other way I'm very immature. So no.
Lisa Bodnar:
What's the longest you've gone without sleep and why?
Erika Braithwaite:
It was an exam during my undergrad. Again in Montreal sometimes we have these like insane snow storms and the exam was at 9:00 AM. So I stayed from the morning. In my undergrad in psychology it was like pretty competitive and so everyone just used to do drugs. And so we made these like cocktails of like cold medicine. We'd put in Excedrin and Advil and then caffeine pills. So your stomach hurts a lot. So then I stayed up all day, all night, and all day.
Lisa Bodnar:
Whoa! That's long. That's like 40 some hours.
Erika Braithwaite:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. How'd you do on the test?
Erika Braithwaite:
Probably amazing. Yeah. Did I mention the drugs?
Lisa Bodnar:
When you see a picture of a friend's newborn baby, what percent of the time are you lying when you say the baby is cute?
Erika Braithwaite:
100%.
Lisa Bodnar:
I'm so glad you were honest.
Erika Braithwaite:
The people who know me the best know that about me, and their favorite thing is to watch me meet a new baby. Cause they'll know that I'm contorting my face. It's a small human, like I don't know.
Lisa Bodnar:
Oh, you were the perfect person to ask that. Winter or summer?
Erika Braithwaite:
Summer.
Lisa Bodnar:
You live in Montreal.
Erika Braithwaite:
I know. It makes no sense.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay.
Erika Braithwaite:
Yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
Do you camp? And if so, what's wrong with you?
Erika Braithwaite:
I would sooner die. I would sooner die than spend time outside in the dirt. And you have to like pack things and unpack things. It's very laborious. I have fewer of my favorite makeup items. Like I don't know why I would do that on purpose.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. Who wants to poop and have to make a hole and then carry the poop out with you?
Erika Braithwaite:
I'm not even going to have this conversation with you. We're done here. We're done with camping.
Lisa Bodnar:
Moving on. We're done. I bet you have a junk TV of choice.
Erika Braithwaite:
It's really sad. But I only watch three shows and I just watch them on a loop. So it's like Parks and Rec, 30 Rock, and The Office. And I'll never move new content for the rest of [inaudible 00:19:44].
Lisa Bodnar:
That's it? Okay. Is it especially good now because it's sort of like nostalgic?
Erika Braithwaite:
Yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
Like a time when things were a little happier?
Erika Braithwaite:
Yeah. Yeah. No, I'll never get tired of it.
Lisa Bodnar:
Big party or small gathering. I'm going to guess, may I guess?
Erika Braithwaite:
Sure.
Lisa Bodnar:
You're big party, right?
Erika Braithwaite:
No. I think I'm small gathering. I think I like going and connecting with people. It's not uncommon for me to get to a place with a new person and be like, "So your mother said what to you?" and like really go deep into other people's trauma. I think people leave upset when they talk to me cause they're just like, "Why did I say that to you?"
Lisa Bodnar:
I have a lot of people who say to me, "I've never told anyone that before."
Erika Braithwaite:
It's beautiful. I love it.
Lisa Bodnar:
Would you rather have edible spaghetti hair that regrows every night or sweat maple syrup?
Erika Braithwaite:
Spaghetti hair?
Lisa Bodnar:
Why?
Erika Braithwaite:
I feel like I'm already a very sweaty person and to imagine more stickiness. No, it's spaghetti hair for sure.
Lisa Bodnar:
But the spaghetti hair, noodles are also sticky.
Erika Braithwaite:
Think of the bees that would gravitate to you if you sweat an animal's. So, no. That's my final answer.
Lisa Bodnar:
Then your sweat would be not stinky.
Erika Braithwaite:
But it would be everywhere. And think of the acne. And I couldn't put makeup on top of it. I could go on forever about why I'm right about this.
Lisa Bodnar:
All right. But also I'm just must say the animals are going to come to you with spaghetti hair. It's not that you're going to get away from the animals.
Erika Braithwaite:
But the bugs would be gravitating towards the honey and that's grosser.
Lisa Bodnar:
All right, that's fine. You like raccoons eating your hair. That's fine.
Lisa Bodnar:
Erica. I'm so glad that we talked because I think that your role right now and your career trajectory is so inspiring, I think especially to women. We need more paths from a PhD in epidemiology. I think you're setting a great example. I think that if more trainees knew about the type of work that you're doing. They don't have to be the founder of a company, but they can look for opportunities like this and grow into a position.
Erika Braithwaite:
And hopefully that makes people feel less angst while they're in their studies. Cause even if they end up in academia, it would be nice if they just had the confidence to be like, "I have options." This insecurity of me not being good at it, you can end up at different tier in universities. You can be a lecturer. There's so many different things. I think the failure of the system is just not telling people all the options they have. If I had to scream from the rooftop to all my fellow PhDs, and especially to the women, I want to shake them and say, "You can do so much. Stop underselling yourself. Fucking ask for more money, and whatever you think the highest number is, double it."
Erika Braithwaite:
Because women are really terrible at knowing their own worth. Apply for that job even though you don't have 100% of the qualifications. Cause I swear to you, you're probably more qualified than you think you are. Take everyone's money for fuck sakes. Stop asking for $5 when you interview for a job.
Lisa Bodnar:
That's so great. I'm really grateful that you would take an hour out of your day to talk. Thank you.
Erika Braithwaite:
This was a true pleasure. Thank you so much for inviting me.
Lisa Bodnar:
That was so much fun.
Erika Braithwaite:
This is a great podcast. You're great I guess. I'm really glad you did this.
Lisa Bodnar:
I'm so glad that Hailey suggested you. She suggested you and then I was like, "But Hailey, I need someone fun. Like I can try to squeeze blood out of a rock, but it's really hard." And especially in these early episodes, I want to build momentum of this is fun. We have a good time here. She was like, "Erika is great." And I was like, "Okay."