Mya Roberson, MSPH on epi methods in health services research and Guy Fieri

PhD candidate Mya Roberson, MSPH talks about her interest in applying epidemiologic methods to health service research, and how her roles as a Robert Wood Johnson Foundation Health Policy Research Scholar and a Truman Scholar helped shape this focus. She also discusses contortion and aerial arts, Guy Fieri, an epic face-plant, and more!

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Mya Roberson:

Right before my proposal defense I ate five pounds of gummy bears in a week. I previously had a gummy bear problem. I ate so many gummy bears and I have not touched them since my proposal defense.

Lisa Bodnar:

Hey everyone, I'm Lisa Bodnar. Welcome to Shiny Epi People where we're trying to shine a little bit of brightness in our very dark world right now. So one of the goals of this podcast is to open us up to thinking about epidemiology more broadly. Of course, all of the public health disciplines relate to and inform one another. Today I wanted to talk about that with someone who is basing her career on it, and that's Mya Roberson. Maya is a PhD candidate in the Department of Epi at UNC's Gilling School of Global Public Health. Her research interests are in applying epi methods to health services research, with a goal of promoting health equity. She focuses on equity in cancer care delivery for black women.

                I wanted to talk to Mya about her positions as a Robert Wood Johnson Foundation Health Policy Research Scholar and as a Truman Scholar. These leadership programs helped solidify her commitment to public service, and taught her to translate her findings from epidemiologic research to health policy and health services. And as you can imagine, this approach has the potential to make a big impact on health outcomes. I learned a lot during this conversation with Mya, and I think you will too. I hope you enjoy it.

                Hi, Mya.

Mya Roberson:

Hi, Lisa.

Lisa Bodnar:

I'm so glad you're here. Thank you for being here.

Mya Roberson:

Thanks for having me on today.

Lisa Bodnar:

So Mya, let's talk about these two really cool positions you have. Can you explain what each of these is and how you got each of them?

Mya Roberson:

Sure. So the Truman Scholar came first, and that is a graduate school scholarship geared towards undergraduate juniors. And it's this very honestly truly wild, highly competitive process. Each institution can nominate four candidates to go to the national competition and you compete on behalf of your home state. So I was representing the state of Pennsylvania, and it involved all of these in-depth essays about my commitment to public service, and my five-year plan, my tenure plan. So for a compulsive planner like me it was so right up my alley. I had to get approved by Brown first, had to do a mock interview with them and pass that test, which is truthfully one of the most difficult 20 minutes of my whole life.

Lisa Bodnar:

What did they ask you?

Mya Roberson:

One of the hardest questions I remember being asked was if all research was considered public service. That's a hard question, because I mean NIH and a lot of these government agencies are taxpayer funded. So I mean, following that logic, ideally they should be public service. But in my heart, do I believe that all NIH research is a form of public service? I don't know. I still don't know, honestly. And I remember being 19 years old then being asked that question by this senior professor who was NIH funded himself. And I was like, oh my goodness. Turned out that my internal Brown interview process to even get selected to compete was more intense than my national interview, which was the setting of that was kind of terrifying. It was at the Federal Reserve Bank in Philadelphia with no windows.

Lisa Bodnar:

It's like you were applying for a CIA position or something.

Mya Roberson:

Honestly, it's not far off. It is not far off. And so we're in this kind of holding room where it's like some folks are trying to flex on the rest of us. And I'm sorry if she's listening to this, but I remember one girl said that she was a speech writer for then Vice President Joe Biden, and I was like, I'm not about that, but I'm just going to sit in the corner and listen to Beyonce and not talk to anyone. It was kind of weird. But some of the folks I'm still friends with to this day, because I think we had this common, we communicated with our eyes mostly about how surreal that experience was. I just want to go in and do my interview, which is with a panel of nine folks.

                I remember it, they always end the interview on some kind of fun question. So they had asked me, what's my favorite thing to cook? It had come up somewhere that I had liked cooking, and I told them about my famous pork tacos. And then one of the interviewers goes, oh, well that isn't very public healthy. How are you going to be a public health professional?

Lisa Bodnar:

You're like, dude, lighten up. It's a meal, okay?

Mya Roberson:

I found out that I had gotten it a couple of weeks later. So I remember being at my work study job and I just get an email from the university president with the subject line, congratulations. And I thought it was some kind of spam message. I squealed. I was so happy to be part of that community and to have that money for graduate school. And I called my parents, and typical working class, they were both at work when I had called them. And that was years ago, and still to this day they have that voicemail on there-

Lisa Bodnar:

Aww, that's lovely.

Mya Roberson:

... from when I called to tell them that I got the Truman-

Lisa Bodnar:

Oh, they're so proud of you. That's so wonderful. What did you learn through the Truman?

Mya Roberson:

I think the biggest takeaway for me has been defining what my public service is and integrating public service into the research that I do. And for me, I think that this gets into what I've learned through the Health Policy Research Scholar's Program as well, because I really feel an obligation to translate my epidemiologic research findings to the broader public, especially because this affects them at the end of the day, keeping science communication at the core of what I do. And I think that being a first generation college student has been a major asset to me in that regard because I have always, I think had pretty simple language. When I came to graduate school, I looked at that as kind of a deficit. And then, especially after I became part of the Robert Wood Johnson Health Policy Research Scholar's Program, I realized it's okay to use simpler language, and especially if that brings more people along besides just PhDs. Now more than ever seeing what's going on to the pandemic, that talking in simple language so everyone can understand is really, really important, and I don't know that that's necessarily emphasized enough in graduate program.

Lisa Bodnar:

Did they teach you how to do that?

Mya Roberson:

So the Health Policy Research Scholar's Program did. We spent an entire semester learning how to talk about our research in a single sentence, one sentence, really, really getting down to the absolute essentials. And then after that, we had learned more about developing policy memos. And so bridging out from that single sentence that we had developed to still talk concisely, but in a way that can be applicable to a broader array of audiences, especially policy makers.

Lisa Bodnar:

So what was your one sentence?

Mya Roberson:

My sentence now would be that I focus on cancer care delivery for black people in the United States.

Lisa Bodnar:

Can you give me an example from your research, and how you take findings and apply them then to a policy context?

Mya Roberson:

I mean, I think the important part was working with the folks who were on the ground doing this work already. So for me, because much of my research so far has focused on breast cancer, there are so many wonderful, tremendously energized black women with lived experience with breast cancer who are doing this work, who are on the Hill talking to policymakers. For me, it's also been about finding the right partnerships too and talking to the right people, because at the end of the day I am myself a black woman, but I'm not a black woman with lived experience. And that was also one of the takeaways from Health Policy Research Scholar's Program, stories are meaningful in these policy communications, and I think in epi we can be kind of divorced from that because we're all numbers, numbers, numbers.

Lisa Bodnar:

Everyone's just a zero or a one, right?

Mya Roberson:

Exactly. Exactly. I came to UNC hoping to do strict cancer etiology research and exposure outcome.

Lisa Bodnar:

How did you come there then from the straight epidemiologists to this mixture?

Mya Roberson:

I think I had always denied it that it was there, because some of my early research was in health services research, but on outcomes other than cancer. And when I was at Brown, the folks I knew who did cancer work were all epidemiologist. And so my kind of naive, first gen self, I was like, oh, if I want to study cancer, I have to be an epidemiologist. And at the end of the day, I still think it was the right move for me. I had a little bit of an identity crisis a couple of years ago, like, oh my goodness, why am I in an epi program? But there's a need for these methods in health policy, in health services research, and there should be more cross talk between them. I mean, nobody's going to pick up our epi research and just turn it into policy as much as we all hope.

                So I arrived there when I realized that the articles and the news that I would get really jazzed about were these ones about insurance coverage, and reimbursement and thinking through how those could affect cancer disparities, which is the underlying passion that I've always had. So that's how I came full circle from, I want to be an etiologist, to actually I want to study cancer care delivery using epi methods.

Lisa Bodnar:

When you said that you had a bit of a crisis, what were you thinking at that point? Like, I should leave the epi PhD program, or I don't know what I'm going to do with this degree?

Mya Roberson:

I felt like kind of an outlier at UNC, quite honestly. I mean, we have all of these super brilliant folks developing these new methods and all sorts of things like that. And I guess I just didn't relate to that or much of the course content I was learning because I didn't see how it applied to what I wanted to do. And I think it was through, I mean, I keep coming back to it, through the Health Policy Research Scholar's Program where I saw, actually this stuff is very translatable and usable, even if I'm not learning about how to translate it to health services research in my courses, that's still an option for me. And my advisor, Whitney Robinson, over my PhD here at UNC, her research has also shifted in a more health services research care delivery realm, and I think that that was tremendously helpful in seeing like, okay, we're kind of going through this shift together, and it's okay to apply these methods to things other than what we were formerly taught.

Lisa Bodnar:

So probably students who might be interested in pursuing more of a path like you were able to do, taking a couple courses in a health policy, health administration type department within their school of public health could be a nice way of at least getting started, right, to see how these two things could work together?

Mya Roberson:

Oh yeah, absolutely. I know one of the courses I took at UNC was methods and cost effectiveness, and that was another thing that I hadn't previously thought about in my epi training. But at the end of the day, things cost money, interventions cost money. Their affects can cost more money or save money. And so, thinking about what even is a cost at its most fundamental level and how does cost come into play in different areas of research, and of interventions and the sequela of health outcomes? That was also a really valuable course that I took to think about those sorts of issues and has also informed how I think about health policy too, because policy makers are motivated by dollar signs at the end of the day too. So having, I wouldn't say I necessarily have expertise in cost yet, but at least knowing the language around that and being able to know where to look for information about costs for the things that I'm interested in, I think has certainly helped me along the way in understanding the impact of the work that I do.

                Oddly enough, I lost all sense of any imposter syndrome I had when I became a trustee at Brown after I had graduated. I don't look like your typical trustee in any way, shape or form. And I very distinctly remember my very first board meeting, and one of my colleagues who came from a very privileged background is going on some nonsensical rant about how all Brown students should just be thankful they got in, it's a wonderful opportunity and all of this stuff. And I was so upset, because while I love that institution, it was hard, especially as a first gen college student. And so, I straight up told this man in this meeting that he and I lived very different Brown experiences because he was a privileged white guy and could not speak to the totality of Brown experience for our diverse student body that now exists. Crickets. Everybody was stunned.

                And then I think once he picked his jaw up off the floor, we had a dialogue about it and he ended up saying, you know what? You're right. I don't know what it's like to be a low-income student, a student of color, any of these things, and I'm going to start listening from now on. That encounter spread its way around the board, and they were like, Mya's not coming to mess around.

Lisa Bodnar:

Nice.

Mya Roberson:

It was in that meeting, that little orientation meeting where it was just a small group of us where I realized I was not going to be a token, or a symbol, or just there for decorative purposes like black women quite honestly often are. I was going to deeply engage and they were going to hear what I had to say. And truthfully after that, I was really deeply respected by all of my colleagues on the board. I've never had a problem with anyone, and oftentimes they would directly ask me for my opinion.

Lisa Bodnar:

That's awesome. How did you get up the courage to even say anything?

Mya Roberson:

I'm often described as the person who says what everyone's thinking, but no one has the courage to say. And I mean, I was a little bit worried in that, because it was literally my very first meeting. It was nine o'clock in the morning, and if I say the wrong thing or do it in the wrong way, I can be perceived as aggressive or any of these negative stereotypes associated with black women. And so, I think over the course of time through being in kind of analogous situations but not at the same high level, that I've just mastered that delivery, that tone, that you will listen to me and hear what I have to say. It's a function of where and how I grew up.

                So I'm from a super small rural town in Eastern Pennsylvania that's 98% white, so I grew up learning just how to say what's on my mind because the spaces around me were not built for me. And I think that that similarly applied as I moved through my educational career, and certainly in that space, that that was not built for me so I needed to make myself heard, because if I didn't, it wouldn't be heard at all.

Lisa Bodnar:

How have you dealt with the stress of a PhD program?

Mya Roberson:

I think one of the best pieces of advice that I got before coming to grad school was to make sure I made friends outside of my PhD program, and ideally friends who were not in school at all. And my first year, that was so hard. And then I got some kind of social media ad for this women's fitness studio, and I went and I fell in love with the space, with the people. It has been such a big source of community. We talk about stuff other than school. And being able to talk to people and just not be stressed and not have school come up once if I didn't want it to has been a really great source of support for me, in addition to the great physical activity that I get from it too.

Lisa Bodnar:

Yeah. So what are you doing there physically?

Mya Roberson:

It is an aerial acrobatics studio. So I have been doing that for the last couple of years.

Lisa Bodnar:

So what do you do? You're on a flying trapeze?

Mya Roberson:

So, the ceilings are a little short for trapeze. I did try trapeze once though. There is something called lyra, which is a stainless steel hoop that you do choreography, and moves, and splits from and all of that.

Lisa Bodnar:

You mean from the ceiling?

Mya Roberson:

Yeah. It's hung from the ceiling, and it spins and there are different types so you can control how fast and slow you spin. More recently I had picked up contortion training too.

Lisa Bodnar:

What? So what were you doing?

Mya Roberson:

So in January, I guess it was, I took a six week splits intensive with a Russian contortionists. Being involved in aerial I was already a bit flexible, but certain not Russian contortionists flexible. And we just did all of these really wild stretches. And I enjoyed contortion so much because it's slightly uncomfortable, and I think one of the greatest things that I've taken away from it that I actually applied to my life more broadly is contortion taught me how to tell the difference between, you know what? This is uncomfortable, but I'm okay and I can just kind of sit through it, versus this is uncomfortable and unsafe, I need to remove myself from this situation. It's not good for me.

Lisa Bodnar:

I think it says a lot that you can apply some of those feelings to real life, because that's what life is, right? It's a lot of discomfort and working through the discomfort. So, yeah. Yeah.

Mya Roberson:

And this instructor, I don't know that she thought that she would teach us all these life lessons. Because I mean, we'd just look at her just throwing her leg over her shoulder and we cannot do that. But then she would take us through these progressions like, no, we're not her, but I really began seeing what is possible, and bodies are capable of so many incredible things. And one of the things that I loved about that intensive too is that we really spanned in age range. My stretching partner had worked at SAS for the last 25 years.

Lisa Bodnar:

Really?

Mya Roberson:

Yeah. And so, to bring together such a wonderful group of women from all walks of life just learning how to stretch with this little 4’ 10” contortionists.

Lisa Bodnar:

What is the sort of most extreme thing that you can do?

Mya Roberson:

I have really hyper mobile shoulders and back, so there was this one that I could do, I don't know if I could do it right now, a full camel is something that I could do.

Lisa Bodnar:

Okay, what is that?

Mya Roberson:

It's a backbend, and you start on your knees and you get your elbows to the ground.

Lisa Bodnar:

So you're on your knees and your forearms are behind you on the floor?

Mya Roberson:

Correct.

Lisa Bodnar:

Do you have a photo of you doing that?

Mya Roberson:

I do.

Lisa Bodnar:

Did you send it to me?

Mya Roberson:

Yes.

Lisa Bodnar:

Look at you. That's awesome. I love it. Perfect. Your full camel is so lovely.

                If you had to be a contestant on a game show, which one would it be?

Mya Roberson:

I'm a Guy Fiery fanatic. I love Guy Fiery so much, that for my 21st birthday I went to one of his restaurants in Pennsylvania with my parents. One of his shows on Food Network is called the Guy's Grocery Games, and I watch the show pretty religiously. And I'm also obsessed with grocery stores. So I would love to one day compete on Guy's Grocery Games.

Lisa Bodnar:

What do you have to do?

Mya Roberson:

Yeah. So they have different kind of weird challenges that they have to do and they're in this giant grocery store. So they'll be told, make an international dish with five ingredients or less. You have 25 minutes to do that, go. And you have to go, and run and figure out their five ingredients in this grocery store. Most of the time it's professional chefs, occasionally they'll do moms, or firemen, or whatever, different themes. I'm just waiting for the theme that I fit into so I can submit my application to Guy's Grocery Games.

Lisa Bodnar:

Have you ever tripped and fallen in front of a lot of people?

Mya Roberson:

I did, actually. Oh my goodness. It was one weekend that I had a board meeting. Oh my goodness, this night was such a disaster. I remember leaving my hotel that day, and my high heel broke so I had to stop at a shoe store next to this restaurant. And I bought a new pair of heels, and walked out in them and then walked to this restaurant. And as I was walking to my table, my heel caught on my dress and I just flew forward.

Lisa Bodnar:

Did you really?

Mya Roberson:

And what makes it even worse, is that on my way down I pulled this poor lady's hair and I felt so bad. I felt so bad and I was so embarrassed. I just ruined this ladies dinner, and she was so worried about me that I had fallen and twisted an ankle. But the worst thing was my pride and the embarrassment. Yeah. I mean, it was a busy Saturday night. Oh my goodness. I have forgotten that, I had wiped that from my memory until you had just asked.

Lisa Bodnar:

If you had to choose your last meal, what would it be?

Mya Roberson:

Probably a slice of pizza from this little Italian American restaurant in my hometown that I'm pretty sure is run by the mob, but their pizza is so good.

Lisa Bodnar:

What is good about it?

Mya Roberson:

It's the exact right thickness. And it's kind of funny, because I mean, I haven't lived in Pennsylvania for eight or nine years now, but every time I go back home they still know my pizza order.

Lisa Bodnar:

Oh, that's sweet.

Mya Roberson:

And when I call on the phone or when I walk in, they know exactly what I get. So I think it's the atmosphere, but it also is, I haven't found pizza that I've enjoyed as much as that, and I don't know if it's actually that good or if it's just the pure nostalgia that makes it that good.

Lisa Bodnar:

Thank you for doing this.

Mya Roberson:

Thanks for having me. This was such a lovely conversation. It was so nice to talk about epi and non epi things. I really appreciated this and what you're doing with the podcast.

Lisa Bodnar:

Thank you. That's so nice of you.

                I can't wait to hear how your dissertation goes. I can't wait to hear what's next.

Mya Roberson:

Me too, Lisa. I can't wait to hear what's next either. These job applications have me stressed.