Shiny Epi People
Shiny Epi People
Updates from Leslie McClure, Hailey Banack, and Penny Gordon Larsen!
Summer is ending, but my summer bonus episodes are not! Today, you get to hear 3 interviews which all appeared first on my Patreon as a thank you to my patrons (become one at www.patreon.com/shinyepipeople). Today, they are out for all to enjoy! You hear updates from Leslie McClure, Penny Gordon Larsen, and Hailey Banack. They all appeared on the show early in Season 1 and are here to tell you what's going on in their lives since their recording. If you didn't hear their first episodes, go back and have a listen so you can follow some of our silliness!
Lisa Bodnar:
Hello friends. Welcome back to Shiny Epi People. I'm Lisa Bodnar. I'm thrilled that you're here listening to the show. I love making this podcast and without you listen, this wouldn't be a thing. So thank you. As a reminder, the show can be found at Shiny Epi People on Instagram and on Twitter I post additional content there about each one of the episodes. So you can keep in touch with the show. If you want to reach out to me, for any reason, you can email at shinyepipeople@gmail.com. In addition, I have been selling lots of Shiny Epi People, vinyl stickers, they're hexagon shaped. They're like the ones you see on people's laptops. And they're found lots of other places about 110 have been sold already. So thank you, if you bought one of these little things, reach out to me, if you would like to buy one, they cost me about two dollars each that includes postage in the US.
And so if you want to add a donation to that, I would really appreciate it. You might be hearing from me again next week. There might be an episode. I don't really know yet. Still trying to figure out a schedule. Patrons you will still be getting a new episode each week until the end of September. So keep that in mind. They are still summer bonus episodes because summer doesn't end, I think officially until the end of September. So there you go. I'm prolonging your summer, how about that. Today I am sharing with you three episodes that I released as summer bonus episodes for my patrons. Patrons are people who donate a little bit of money each month so that I can put the show together. If you would like to become a patron, it's easy. You go to patreon.com/shinyepipeople and you can donate as little as a dollar a month, if you would like thank you to the 65 or 70 patrons that I have right now, your support is what keeps the show going.
The three interviews today are from folks who I interviewed earlier on in the Shiny Epi People season one. And I would urge you to go back and listen to their original episodes if you haven't already. And if you haven't listened, they're just amazing people. And you're going to learn so much from each one of them. So they go in this order today, Leslie McClure, Penny [inaudible 00:02:28] Larson, and Hailey Bannock. I don't really introduce them in each one of their segments. So remember that order or write it down you big nerds because I'm not going to say it again. And I hope you enjoy these chats. Leslie.
Leslie McClure:
Lisa.
Lisa Bodnar:
Hi.
Leslie McClure:
It's so good to see you.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay what is up in the world of Leslie McClure?
Leslie McClure:
People loved your episode and they really enjoyed the horse fucking components of it.
Lisa Bodnar:
Not that we horses. Let's just make that clear because we're real people, right? And we talked about real things.
Leslie McClure:
Yes, we did really weird things.
Lisa Bodnar:
Tell me what's new in your world.
Leslie McClure:
First of all, I want to say that this has been great having you do these episodes, and I know you're going to cut this out, but I hope you don't that your esiure talk was just delightful and Shiny Epi People's brought so much joy to so many people and your talk did too. It was just lovely.
Lisa Bodnar:
Thank you.
Leslie McClure:
And I know you'll cut it out, but hopefully you won't.
Lisa Bodnar:
Maybe I won't.
Leslie McClure:
So in my personal life, the exciting news is that my daughter graduated from high school and she's away working at a summer camp. And it's very strange after having all of us here together for a year and a half nonstop, she'll be home for less than a week before she goes to college at Ohio state. And so that's me trying to adjust and reset our normal, our new normal's going to be very different with just my son home.
Lisa Bodnar:
Tell us what she's going to be doing.
Leslie McClure:
She's planning to study aerospace engineering.
Lisa Bodnar:
I love that.
Leslie McClure:
Only 18% of bachelor's degrees in aerospace engineering go to people who identify as women.
Lisa Bodnar:
Wow.
Leslie McClure:
So I'm extremely proud of her for pursuing a field that is very male dominated. She may not stick with it. I mean, when I was 18 going to college, I want to it to be an international lawyer so.
Lisa Bodnar:
Did you?
Leslie McClure:
I totally did.
Lisa Bodnar:
I literally could never imagine you doing that.
Leslie McClure:
I would cry in the courtroom. It would be so stressful.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah and you're a softie.
Leslie McClure:
I am a softie.
Lisa Bodnar:
which is a good thing. Not a bad thing.
Leslie McClure:
Yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah.
Leslie McClure:
That's the personal and then professionally, so the last year's been a lot of soul searching. So I think just before COVID, or just after right in March of 2020, I signed on for five more years as chair. I think if I had known what the last 18 months were going to be like, I might not have, it was the hardest year of my career because there was so much happening personally with people. And like you said, I'm a softie and I wanted to be able to help people. And then at the same time I had to tell them, "Oh, but you have to teach, even though I know your life's a show," Right? I know that your kids are home and you're with them 24/7 and you're their teacher and their daycare provider. And by the way, I still need you to do work. And the human in me didn't want to, all I wanted them to do was to be able to like take care of themselves. And so just trying to balance, that was really challenging.
Lisa Bodnar:
What do you feel like you did right and if you could go back, what do you think you'd do differently?
Leslie McClure:
I think what I did right was I really did emphasize family first personal first that this is even harder. Being in academics is hard enough, and this was even harder and that everybody's situation was different and that we should be working hard to take care of ourselves. I mean, but it was hard because I wanted to be looking out for everyone in the department, but I could only see them on Zoom. And if I had to do it over again, I would again tell them, "I don't give a shit if you're teaching evaluation, suck if you cancel half your classes, if you need to, you need to take care of you." Because in the end, right. If you don't take care of you, then in the long run, none of this matters.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah.
Leslie McClure:
And so I really did emphasize that. So that was the challenge. The exciting thing that happened is in conversations with my dean about what I want to do in the long run with my career, she offered me the opportunity to also serve as the associate dean for faculty affairs.
Lisa Bodnar:
Wow. That's a huge opportunity.
Leslie McClure:
Yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
Would you still be chair and do that.
Leslie McClure:
This is plus so.
Lisa Bodnar:
Oh, Leslie, what?
Leslie McClure:
I know, I know it because again.
Lisa Bodnar:
We're going to talk about this offline.
Leslie McClure:
It goes against all my, I need to say no more, but I mean, we didn't have anyone doing this at our school. And I worked really hard to outline precisely what I'll be doing with my dean so that we were on the same page, that it was going to be very limited to those three things that I just described. And so I have the ammunition now, when she asks me to do other things in this role, to be able to say, "Well, that's not within the scope of what we decided I'd be doing." So what else am I going to stop doing. I mean, I know it's extra stuff to be doing, but I really do enjoy the opportunity to work with the faculty and the school more broadly.
Lisa Bodnar:
Well, can I ask you personal? Can I go back to personal?
Leslie McClure:
Sure.
Lisa Bodnar:
What are some things or a thing that you would share that you think COVID taught you about you?
Leslie McClure:
So I really value my alone time. And even more than I realized, being with my family all the time really taught me that. And I realized just how hard it is to have that alone time and how lucky I am that in my job, I get the opportunity to travel. And that gives me that time. But on the other hand, I also learned that if we have to be together for a year, that we can. And in fact, I feel my marriage is stronger than it was before COVID I think it forced us to work on some things that we needed to work on. And I feel I know my kids a lot better than I did before COVID, it makes that my daughter going to college even more difficult because we did get that time together.
Lisa Bodnar:
What has it felt like to connect with friends or family that you haven't seen?
Leslie McClure:
I took my daughter to see my parents in June and it was pretty emotional. I was a little surprised at how much they had aged in a year and a half still. Still don't love the idea of being inside. It still feels weird to me.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay.
Leslie McClure:
But we're doing it and we're seeing friends and it is, it's really emotional and it's really emotional to be able to hug a friend again.
Lisa Bodnar:
The hugs post pandemic are just completely different than they were before.
Leslie McClure:
It's like, I don't want to let go.
Lisa Bodnar:
The longest hug hello. The longest hug goodbye and it feels really good.
Leslie McClure:
It does feel really good.
Lisa Bodnar:
I have been on the verge of tears several times, right. And it is like, we survived this literally, we literally survived this when other people didn't.
Leslie McClure:
That's right.
Lisa Bodnar:
There was a chance we were not going to see each other again.
Leslie McClure:
That thought of what those possibilities could have been too is really terrifying.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah.
Leslie McClure:
And that does make it that much sweeter to be able to hug the people we love.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. You're such a good chair. And I think that chairs bring a lot and this human side of you, I mean it's why you and I are friends, it's why you're a great chair. And I'm really glad that you could share that with me and share it with listeners. It's really valuable.
Leslie McClure:
That's very kind and it really means a lot. And I have to say, I think the reason that I got a lot of downloads for my episode is I think my parents just went in and downloaded it over and over.
Lisa Bodnar:
Could be. But your episode is up to 1200 right around everyone else's so.
Leslie McClure:
It's very kind and I really appreciate it. And I appreciate you so much, Lisa. And I hope we get to catch up in person soon.
Lisa Bodnar:
Let's do it.
Leslie McClure:
All right.
Lisa Bodnar:
Thanks, Leslie.
Leslie McClure:
Thank you.
Lisa Bodnar:
What's up friend. I literally don't think I've seen your face since the last time we were on the show together.
Penny Larson:
I know. Isn't that crazy?
Lisa Bodnar:
It's unfortunate, cause I like seeing your face.
Penny Larson:
Oh, I miss seeing you.
Lisa Bodnar:
You have some updates.
Penny Larson:
I have updates.
Lisa Bodnar:
Tell me your updates, was the last time it was almost a year ago Penny that you were on the show.
Penny Larson:
I know. So I don't know. It's been a crazy year. So I guess right after I talked to you, I did a whole huge thing. Being an administrator during COVID was ridiculous so much going on. We did all this amazing work with the state and then I got a distinguished professorship, which is very exciting.
Lisa Bodnar:
It's incredible. So tell us what that is and why it's great.
Penny Larson:
It's called the Carlos Smith Chamblee distinguished professorship of global nutrition. So it's a metaphor.
Lisa Bodnar:
Oh Lord almighty.
Penny Larson:
I know.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay, yes.
Penny Larson:
It is. It's a big honor. It's a donor Carlos Smith Chamblee gave the money to my department back when Steve Izel was originally chair and Barry Popkin had this distinguished professor chair and then Peggy Bentley did and she retired and then I got it. So it's great. It's nice recognition. It's really wonderful.
Lisa Bodnar:
I would guess that one of the really cool things about it, is that it has been kind of passed down from your own mentors.
Penny Larson:
Yeah, I know it is. It's an honor. It just signifies that I've made an impact in global nutrition, which is the most important thing to me, to be able to do is to make an impact with my work.
Lisa Bodnar:
Wonderful, congratulations. I can't think of anyone who deserves it more than you.
Penny Larson:
Oh, well, thank you. So then also right after we talked, my daughter got struck by lightning and so it's almost like.
Lisa Bodnar:
I shouldn't be laughing.
Penny Larson:
I know.
Lisa Bodnar:
That's sounds really scary, but she's okay right?
Penny Larson:
She's totally fine. She's one of these people who does above treeline hiking and camping and backpacking, so she's never been afraid of lightning. And she and her boyfriend went out for a walk in the neighborhood and it was sort of threatening, but not raining. There was no thunderstorm. It just looked like maybe in an hour there's going to be thunder. And so all of a sudden, out of nowhere, one of those freakish storms, it just went, boom.
Lisa Bodnar:
Boom, the sound boom.
Penny Larson:
Boom the sound and the lightning.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah.
Penny Larson:
And no rain. And they both went flying in the air and she passed out. She went unconscious. So they came to and they came home and what do we do? So I call the pediatrician. I'm like, what do we do?
Lisa Bodnar:
They hear a lot.
Penny Larson:
Yeah and I used to, when my kids were little, I had the book that the pediatrician, that they use at the pediatrician office. They look up these things, there's a big risk of cardiac damage when you get struck by lightning. And so she did need to go in and they did need to monitor her. And it was the middle of COVID and there was no vaccine and there was little PPE. And so we went in and spent the night there and she was hooked up and monitored.
Lisa Bodnar:
They admitted her.
Penny Larson:
Yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
And they found nothing wrong.
Penny Larson:
Nothing, she was totally fine yep.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay. So can I ask a silly question?
Penny Larson:
Uh-huh.
Lisa Bodnar:
When we see in movies, when people get struck by, or cartoons, when people get struck by lightning, they look singed and their hair. And they're just, and their face is covered in I don't know suit. What did she look like?
Penny Larson:
Well, first of all, she had to walk home after she got struck by lightning. Cause they didn't have their phones. And so we also thought she might have had a concussion because she seriously flew in the air.
Lisa Bodnar:
Wow.
Penny Larson:
And she must have flown forward actually, because her knees were all scraped.
Lisa Bodnar:
Wow.
Penny Larson:
And she had hit her head really hard. So she looked like that. Her hair wasn't standing on it, but she looked like what the hell just happened to me.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay. More questions was she dazed?
Penny Larson:
Yes.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. Okay. How did she know they were struck by lightning.
Penny Larson:
Well, she wasn't sure because of everything, it was just really confusing.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah.
Penny Larson:
But apparently this actually does happen where the lightning comes down and creates such a force that it, like a boom, it was just like you just got flew. So I don't think it was she got struck necessarily on her body, but it was the force of it around her. She does not want to be struck by lightning again. So she is not just not very happy though.
Lisa Bodnar:
I think that isn't that a thing where it's like lightning doesn't strike the same place twice?
Penny Larson:
No, but it does. I mean, it actually, there are-
Lisa Bodnar:
Lightening strikes the same place twice.
Penny Larson:
There are people who get struck multiple times.
Lisa Bodnar:
Is it because they have some-
Penny Larson:
I don't know.
Lisa Bodnar:
Iron, what am I trying to say? A magnetic field is around them and it draws.
Penny Larson:
I don't know. I have no idea.
Lisa Bodnar:
All right.
Penny Larson:
I have no idea, yes.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay. Maybe she needs a seance or like a witch to come and get rid of all the bad juju.
Penny Larson:
Yes.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay. We'll talk about that. We'll talk about that off air.
Penny Larson:
My mother-in-law had COVID and she was really sick during the middle of everything where we couldn't visit her. And it was just like, so helpless.
Lisa Bodnar:
That's so sad.
Penny Larson:
Yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
Is she okay now?
Penny Larson:
She's okay. It was really hard. And she had pretty, I don't know that it was lung COVID, but it took her a long time to recuperate and it's just really hard. We had good things, both of the kids, they were home from college, they both did virtual college, which was awesome. So lovely to have them around for more time and just to learn about the stuff they did. And they each wrote articles that got published in their various university things, which was very cool. Bella wrote an op-ed about, there was a big reproductive rights kind of bill for incarcerated woman. So she wrote a whole thing about that. And then Fred he's big into global politics. So he wrote two pieces about Middle Eastern politics so.
Lisa Bodnar:
Oh my gosh Penny, these children of yours. They're so smart.
Penny Larson:
Yeah. It was cool. It was awesome.
Lisa Bodnar:
Penny it is now farmer's market season. We know what that means.
Penny Larson:
Yes. I'm at the farmer's market.
Lisa Bodnar:
Is it keeping you nice and stressed out about your vegetables and your bags of salads?
Penny Larson:
No, the thing that's good about it is that the level of stress at the farmer's market has decreased with COVID, which is really interesting because they used to have all of these ridiculous rules about when you could start going, they had a bell that they rang a seven and you couldn't go.
Lisa Bodnar:
Oh my God, a bell.
Penny Larson:
Yes. And now it's just more relaxed. So it's actually a much smoother process so.
Lisa Bodnar:
I don't think that I could go to a farmer's market and feel I had to like my adrenaline.
Penny Larson:
I know, I know.
Lisa Bodnar:
It should feel this peaceful, lovely interact with the community.
Penny Larson:
Yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
Work with small businesses and instead you're just like, okay, are we ready?
Penny Larson:
I know it's absurd. It's so much better now actually it's good, yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
Oh, good, no bell and you have to be like, and they're off.
Penny Larson:
But we're eating well because everything's in season. It's awesome.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah.
Penny Larson:
Yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
One of my favorite memories from Chapel Hill was going blueberry picking with Jill Reedy.
Penny Larson:
Aww.
Lisa Bodnar:
And as you know, Jill is kind of classic Jill. She was eating a lot of the berries. And I was like, "Jill, we should be eating the berries, we're supposed to put them," I'm the rule follower, "Put them in the bucket. Then we weigh it. Then we pay for it." And she said, "What they charge, Lisa is an assumption. If you ate half equivalent to half the berries." And so they're going to upcharge knowing that you ate half already. So she's like, "It's fine. It's just fine." So that's what we did. We just ate a bajillion berries and then we bought some.
Penny Larson:
That's awesome.
Lisa Bodnar:
That's very Jill. I miss seeing you and I really want to come to Chapel Hill.
Penny Larson:
I really want you to come to Chapel Hill.
Lisa Bodnar:
Maybe we can arrange a talk so that I can say it's for work.
Penny Larson:
Well, we were supposed to come for talk. We invited you for a talk, but pre pandemic.
Lisa Bodnar:
That needs to happen though. I have nothing to talk about. When people are like come give a talk and then you're like, "I would love that." Except that I have to think of a talk. I want to see all the people and I don't want to do the talk.
Penny Larson:
Well you can do the career development talk. That's what you were going to do. That's why we invited you.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. I'll come.
Penny Larson:
That's awesome.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. Thank you for your update. I like seeing your smiling face.
Penny Larson:
I like seeing your smiley face too. What did you say, you look like what?
Hailey Bannock:
A hobo.
Lisa Bodnar:
No, you don't.
Hailey Bannock:
We're at the cottage this week and this is what I look like. My defaults are academic professional or complete hobo. I apparently don't have any in between.
Lisa Bodnar:
What's the cottage?
Hailey Bannock:
My parents have a cottage that we are all here. So my siblings are here. All our kids are here. There's eight kids under seven and now eight grownups. It's a lot of people. This is our kind of summer tradition. Last summer obviously we had to skip it. So it's so nice for things to feel normal, even though they're not normal.
Lisa Bodnar:
That's so nice. I'm sure you missed your family so much.
Hailey Bannock:
Oh my gosh, so much. In retrospect it's like, "Holy shit, that was 18 a month or some ridiculous." That's a quarter of one of my kids' lives. That's crazy.
Lisa Bodnar:
It is.
Hailey Bannock:
And while it was happening, I don't think I realized how long it was. And then being here now you realize that for kids, it's a really long time.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. And I'm sure with your family, they're watching your little ones, they change so fast and they missed a lot of those stages.
Hailey Bannock:
Yeah and it's not just what you can see in pictures, the language development and the conversations and just their personalities change so much that you can only capture so much of that in pictures or even on FaceTime.
Lisa Bodnar:
And hugs that's so nice hugs and kisses.
Hailey Bannock:
And bed times and cuddles and reading stories and the little conversations you have with them. And for me, seeing my nieces and nephews and stuff is just, I mean, I always knew this, but it's just highlighted so much that there is nothing more important than family and I would do anything to be near them and with them and not separated from them. So we're incredibly fortunate that it's just a drive across the border. I think about people whose family are across the world or a long airplane right away. And it's just awful. I feel for those people so much.
Leslie McClure:
Listeners don't know about your very exciting news. So please.
Hailey Bannock:
I now have a new baby. He's our third boy. And his name is Davie, D-A-V-I-E.
Leslie McClure:
He is the cutest thing on earth really.
Hailey Bannock:
Oh, thank you.
Leslie McClure:
He is at that stage where it's like the rolls of fat, which is the cutest thing ever.
Hailey Bannock:
He was eight pounds exactly. So he was a kind of average regular ish size newborn. And the it's been exponential growth since then, because Davie is so large, the doctor was like, "We need a new percentile curve for this child. He's just off the charts." And I was like, "Well, that's not how percentiles work, but I'll let this one slide." And then the funnier follow up question was, "Are you making soft serve or breast milk?" I am a soft serve machine. That's exactly what I am.
Lisa Bodnar:
I always was like, "I must be making heavy cream."
Hailey Bannock:
That's that's it. I know the good kind of milk, not this watery, skim milk. None of that for my children.
Lisa Bodnar:
Tell me about the transition from two to three kids. Because for me, when transition from two to three, it was really hard.
Hailey Bannock:
I think this experience depends so much on the age difference between your kids is one factor in it. And the personality of the baby. My first two are about two years apart and adding that second kid was so hard. I was struggling in every way. I felt I was failing the big kid. I was failing the baby. It was just so hard. And now this kid is four years after the second kid and night and day. The second kid can fetch himself some snack and turn the TV on and do those kind of things play with his iPad that I just didn't have last time. And this is a really chill baby he's as you said, super fat and just give him a little bit of food. I honestly put him on the floor all the time to deal with the big kids.
He just sits there kind of in the middle of my kitchen, or near the front door while getting their shoes on. He just sits and chills. So I do have to say that I feel really lucky that two to three was not nearly as hard for me in transitions as zero to one or one to two, thankfully. Other updates I still don't make smoothies in the blender. That was the other thing that people always tagged us on.
Lisa Bodnar:
People were up in arms about this.
Hailey Bannock:
They felt really strongly about our conversation. That was surprising to me.
Lisa Bodnar:
That was surprising to me too.
Hailey Bannock:
Still too much for me, still grab random dried goods for breakfast.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah.
Hailey Bannock:
There's only so much you can do. So let's also talk about COVID stuff.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yes, please.
Hailey Bannock:
I think I am feeling more depressed about the COVID situation than I have been in a very long time.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay.
Hailey Bannock:
In may and June, I think I felt many people there is light at the end. We are getting to the end of this.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah.
Hailey Bannock:
And now I feel like I'm at the bottom of a dark well, shouting to people wear your masks. And I'm just flabbergasted about the situation we are in I'm frustrated as a faculty member about being required, told, I don't know what the word is that I need to teach in person, even though there are more cases now than there were last August, there's less masking now than there was last August. So, you know what? I think we have this false sense that let's just pretend COVID, we're all sick of it. So let's just not do it anymore. I feel the same with my kids' schools. These school boards that are not mandating masking, I'm feeling dejected about the whole thing. Which is a bummer.
Lisa Bodnar:
I'm feeling the same way. And I'm worried about Layla being in fifth grade without a vaccine. I mean, I have friends who have already sent their kids back to school. This is we're recording this and the 19th of August and they've come home with COVID already.
Hailey Bannock:
That is scary getting COVID. Whether it's the kids or immunocompromised or quote, unquote breakthrough infections. I don't like that term, but breakthrough infections. And it's also the crazy disruption of needing to quarantine or isolate a classmate of theirs test positive, is your kid home for 10 days, two weeks now is school closed. These disruptions to our lives necessary, but also really frustrating and impossible to plan for. I just, I don't know. I feel like I'm a downer right now, but well.
Lisa Bodnar:
I think that you're reflecting feelings that are pretty universal, at least among people who are listening to this.
Hailey Bannock:
Yeah. I went to an outdoor concert last weekend. And on the one hand I was super excited, this kind of feels normal. I'm getting out in the world and then we get to our seats, the guy next to us, not wearing a mask, looking at me like I have six heads because I am wearing a mask. Not only is he not wearing a mask, he's vaping and sending all his dirty air, I went over and I said, "Excuse me, could you not do that?" And he looked at me like I had just stabbed him, he rolled his eyes like I was the worst person on earth and I was like, fine. You roll your eyes. I felt like I was talking to a toddler. You roll your eyes at me, that's fine. But don't vape in my direction.
Lisa Bodnar:
Wow.
Hailey Bannock:
Go somewhere else.
Lisa Bodnar:
Hailey I'm so proud of that. Your courage. I don't think I would've had the courage to do that.
Hailey Bannock:
I didn't want to, but the fear, I didn't want to spend the next two hours at the show worrying about his vappy stuff, vapors, whatever they're called coming at me. Vappy vapors. Yeah even though it did kind of smell like strawberry mint.
Lisa Bodnar:
Right.
Hailey Bannock:
Strawberry mint COVID vapors. Get them out. I don't want them anywhere near me. And he rolled his eyes and he did stop a little bit. And then he managed to switch seats because there were some empty seats at the concert. So thankfully he wasn't-
Lisa Bodnar:
Well, that's a perfect compromise.
Hailey Bannock:
It was yeah. Go blow your COVID vapor somewhere else. And hopefully not infecting anyone.
Lisa Bodnar:
If I can ask you this, how has the stress about COVID and the worry about it been like playing out for you in real life and real time?
Hailey Bannock:
I mean, it affects basically all of my decisions for myself, my family. As we've talked about, I wear a mask everywhere I go now and things in my life like grocery shopping things that I can do online. There's no question why wouldn't I do it online at this point? It still impacts every decision I make at this point. I'm dying to go on a vacation. Would I put my kids on an airplane right now? No. I would love to teach in person as you and I spoke about last year, teaching on the computer is really hard. You don't get the same kind of enjoyment out of the whole thing. I would love to teach safely in person, but I don't think I can right now. So it still impacts and stresses me out on basically all fronts of my life right now.
Lisa Bodnar:
Are you having a hard time concentrating at work? That's a leading question. How is your concentration at work? I asked it that way because my answer would've been.
Hailey Bannock:
Yes. So recently you posted something on Twitter and I was like, "Lisa sees me, Lisa gets me". And it was, I think I'm paraphrasing, but no flower blooms all year. And I was like, yes. It is July right now I think when you posted it and I feel like my brain cells have left. I don't know. It's so hard. I'm so grateful for a 12 month position. And I'm so grateful for a job that I really enjoy most of the time. But man, it is really hard to be productive for me over the summer months. Even with childcare, even with the most maximal amount of job and family related privilege that I could possibly have. I still really struggle with concentrating right now. And then it becomes like a flurry of, "Oh my God, this semester is starting. I haven't done anything over the summer. Oh my God there's so much research such, blah, blah, blah." And it becomes a bit of a doom spiral for me.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah.
Hailey Bannock:
And then I get settled, over September, October as I get more into the flow things. But I do struggle over the summer months with those topics.
Lisa Bodnar:
I used to say that the summer months were the only ones that I felt guilty about being a working mother. And I don't feel that so much anymore because the kids are older and they're more independent, but when they were young and they would go to camps, my kids would be like, "I just want to stay at home." Like, "Why can't I stay at home like Bridget does."
Hailey Bannock:
Yeah.
Lisa Bodnar:
So the summer is always like, I feel very conflicted over the summer, no matter what. And then sort of putting pressure on my myself because I'm like, "Gosh, if I'm going to be from the kids, I better get stuff done." And-
Hailey Bannock:
Of course.
Lisa Bodnar:
... I don't think that that was ever very effective this summer. I feel I've done nothing. And literally it's like almost every single person I know, even my therapist she's having a hard time concentrating.
Hailey Bannock:
That's good.
Lisa Bodnar:
Not so good for me. But I mean.
Hailey Bannock:
I mean it's so comforting to hear that though, we have so much on our plates right now, as I said, managing all of the COVID related decisions, imagine a time, five years ago where you would like, "Is it safe for me to go get some bananas right now?" Can I do that? And the mental energy that, that takes. So there's that part of it. And then there's the other part where it's like, "Okay, I need to remember to add bananas to my online shopping order for next week because we're out." And the mental energy that, that takes so. There's just so much more going on right now than in a normal summer that it really is hard to put that stuff down much more than I have ever felt before than usual. And so that's why I'm struggling with these concentration related things. I believe COVID like everything [crosstalk 00:36:19].
Lisa Bodnar:
I was feeling a lot of this before COVID, but-
Hailey Bannock:
it's exacerbated it.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. How's your podcasting going?
Hailey Bannock:
Oh, I love podcasting.
Lisa Bodnar:
You do? So remind people, fill everyone in just in case.
Hailey Bannock:
Oh, I love podcasting. So I, co-host a podcast called Sirius Epi with Matt Fox from Boston university. And on this podcast, we talk about epi teaching related topics. So something like matching or what is a cohort study? These kinds of topics that would be relevant for trainees or anyone who wants a refresher on these topics. And we try to do it in a sort of fun and approachable way highlighting the fact that Matt and I both work as faculty and epidemiologists, but we learn a lot along the way. And so we hope to share some of that learning with people who are along for the ride with us. And I'm so lucky to work on the podcast with Matt.
He's an excellent co-host and it's so much fun that SER the society for every research, decided that this would be a good use of resources because I think it is, we've gotten great feedback from folks that have used it as part of their course material. I wanted to have an extension on my course lecture on selection bias, who I assign that podcast as a new medium for students to listen to where this season, it's our second season. And we are going through the new addition of modern epidemiology. Which is a heavy lift for us. But it allows us, it forces me to read each chapter and discuss with Matt, the things that I don't understand, and ask the expert guests that we have on some things I don't understand.
So it clarifies them for me. And I'm sure there are many other things that other folks have questions about. And hopefully, they will also have the chance to read through some of these chapters and we can help maybe clarify some of those topics along the way. So I'm really grateful for podcasting. It's such a fun, medium to communicate.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah what else do you like about it that maybe you didn't expect to like about it?
Hailey Bannock:
So our podcast is a substantive epi focused podcast. So something that I have learned is how much I still love learning about epidemiology. I mean, when I was a doctoral student, I couldn't wait to finish like everyone, you just want to do your coursework, want to get your dissertation done. You want to graduate. And the podcast has given me the opportunity to learn so many new things or refresh my memory of so many new things. And it's so nerdy how much I love learning. There's no other cool way of saying it. I am just a huge nerd who loves learning. And I don't think I expected to enjoy that aspect of it, I knew I would love talking to the guests. I knew I would love the banter with Matt and all that kind of stuff. But learning from our listeners and learning from our guests.
Lisa Bodnar:
The show is so great. And I love that you and Matt are doing it because you're both so accessible.
Hailey Bannock:
And that's been a pretty humbling experience for me, realizing how much I don't know and how much more I could learn on basically any one hour podcast topic, I think, "Oh my goodness I have so much more to learn." And when you say we make it accessible, I think that's interesting because sometimes I think to myself, I'm not really smart enough to be asking these questions right now. I genuinely don't know the answer. I'm not asking these questions as a teaching tool as a, "Explain to me a little bit further, how you do that in the classroom," Because you want them to elaborate on what confounding is or whatever. Most of the time when I'm asking questions, it's that I really don't know the answer and I need someone to explain it to me and so become as accessible because I'm not the smartest.
Lisa Bodnar:
Well, I think that a lot of people would hide that Hailey. And I think that's why the podcast is popular because you are like other people, most other people, you don't know everything. It's nice for people to see that someone as smart, as successful as you also doesn't know everything, that's like really not easy to do, put yourself out there like that.
Hailey Bannock:
Yeah. I kind of vacillate between. I'm really proud of myself for helping to teach these topics, to folks that may not be familiar with them. And also I have no idea what I'm doing. How could I possibly recording an episode on this topic? Because I have no idea what I'm doing. And so it's a very strange place that I flip flop between, but I agree that I think a lot of people share some of those feelings at some point when they're either teaching or learning about a topic in epi.
Lisa Bodnar:
Thank you Hailey, for doing this with me.
Hailey Bannock:
You're welcome. I love chatting with you. It always makes my day.
Lisa Bodnar:
I love talking to you. I'm so glad we're friends.
Hailey Bannock:
Me as well. So thank you for inviting me. Thank you for doing this podcast. It's such a great contribution to our broader community of folks and I am very grateful to be part of it.
Lisa Bodnar:
Thank you.
Hailey Bannock:
And thank goodness that nobody can see my current state, because I feel like I haven't showered in about three days by three I probably mean five confidence interval, three to five days.
