Shiny Epi People
Shiny Epi People
Jaimie Gradus, DSc on luck in grant funding and SER friendships
Welcome to the premier of Season 2 of Shiny Epi People! I could not find a better way to start this new season than to chat with one of my epi besties Jaimie Gradus, DSc. Jaimie is an Associate Professor at Boston University School of Public Health whose research focuses on psychiatric epidemiology. She has an impressive NIH grant portfolio, so we talk success, luck, and the lack of meritocracy in grant funding. Jaimie and I also share our best memories of the annual meetings of the Society for Epidemiologic Research, how we help each other succeed, her life growing up in the Bronx, hatred of jelly donuts and waterparks, and much more. Jaimie is so authentic and funny. You will enjoy this episode for sure!
Lisa Bodnar:
Jaimie, I forgot to get myself a drink.
Jaimie Gradus:
Go get one. Go get one.
Lisa Bodnar:
Dude, I haven't done this show in so long that I forget how to do it.
Jaimie Gradus:
Go get one.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay I'll be right back.
Hello friends, welcome to Shiny Epi People. I'm so happy you're back. And if this is your first time here, I'm honored that you would give the show a try. My goal here with the show is to bring more empathy, vulnerability, joy, and laughter into these troubling times. I want to humanize epidemiologists and other public health people. And I try to do that by encouraging guests to bring their authentic selves and to talk about things that they wouldn't normally talk about in professional settings. Here we are more heart and less smart. If you love the show and appreciate the amount of time, energy and love I put into producing it, please can consider donating. You can do that in two different places. One, that I've talked about before is my Patreon. If you don't know about Patreon, that's a place you can go to become a patron and you donate monthly to the show. Even as little as a dollar a month.
You go to patreon.com/shinyepipeople. And if you don't like the idea of joining Patreon, another place to do donate is through this place called Buy Me a Coffee. So for me, it's buymeacoffee.com/shinyepipeople. And with this site, you can just send a one off donation in any amount. You don't have to sign up, no logging in, no need to remember at a fucking password. And several of you have also asked for my PayPal or Venmo just to send something directly. No matter how you do it, I can't thank you enough for the confidence you put in me. And if you don't donate, that's okay too. I still want you to listen and enjoy the show. So, here we are in season two, it feels good. Many of you have asked me to sell some show merch and just in time for season two are two very fun merch options.
The most exciting, I think are the Shiny Epi t-shirts. I've been touting these on social media and in the episodes that I put out before this over the summer. So, sorry if this is a repeat, but anyway, these are navy short-sleeved shirts that are made in the US of ringspun cotton. That just means it is very soft. On the front has the show logo on the left pocket area. Doesn't have pocket it's just on the area. On the back it says More Heart. Less Smart. Below that text on the back is a little union label from Commonwealth Press. That's the small Pittsburgh based company who's producing the shirts. A union label, or sometimes it's called a union bug is an emblem that advertises that the employees who make the product are represented by a labor union. The owner, Dan is actually the person who initiated the union, the owner, which is very rare.
I've spent time in their print shop. I've posted some of these pics on my Instagram and it feels really good to support these folks. I've worked with Commonwealth Press before to make another shirt. And everyone who got one of these comments, that it is one of the most comfortable shirts they own. You can order one by going to the link pin to my Twitter page or a highlight on my Instagram or on my Instagram profile. And it will take you to the Shiny Epi store. Remember actually, you don't have to have a Twitter account to go to Twitter. My profile is public, anyone can go look at it. Or you can just jot down this link. Are you ready? It's not an easy one to remember, unfortunately. It is www.com.pressmerch.com/collections/shiny-epi-people. You can also just email me and ask me for the link.
It is shinyepipeople@gmail.com. I love hearing from all of you. So please, you're welcome to send a message. These shirts are on presale now through October 20th, that means that you put an order in online before the 20th, and then they're printed and delivered to you sometime the week of November 8th. The shirts are $24. Please remember that this is an important source of income for me. You can also buy Shiny Epi People hexagon shaped vinyl stickers. You may see these types of stickers on people's laptops, but folks have been tweeting me pics, which I love, of them on their bikes, their water bottles, or a pin to their tack boards. It's the show's logo. They are yellow. And I think they're very cute. Believe it or not I've sold almost 200 already. Thanks to all of you who have bought one. The pics of the shirt and of the stickers are on my Instagram and Twitter.
Or just email me. Again, I'm happy to send anything to you that would make things easier. Okay. So are you ready for season two? I am. Today, I launched the new season with one of my favorite people in the entire world, Jaimie Gradus. Who's been one of my Epi besties since 2015 when we met. Jaimie is an Associate Professor at Boston University School of Public Health. Her research focuses on psychiatric epi, specifically in the epidemiology of trauma and trauma related disorders, with a focus on suicide outcomes. Jaimie has an impressive portfolio of NIH grants, which really speaks to the importance and impact of her work. Although she is only in her mid career and has so many years ahead of her. We not only talk about Jaimie's imposter syndrome in grant funding and stories of her growing up in the Bronx, but we also get a little emotional here. Maybe you're not surprised by that. And we talk about what our friendship means and how we help each other succeed.
This episode is also a bit of a love story to SER, the Society for Epidemiologic Research. So SER folks, if you're listening, maybe you want to promote this show. I don't know, just a thought. I love Jaimie Gradus and this episode brings me so much joy. I hope you enjoy this chat.
Cheers friend.
Jaimie Gradus:
Cheers. This is fun.
Lisa Bodnar:
Are you drinking a Michelob Light in a wine glass?
Jaimie Gradus:
So my new thing in the pandemic, and please tell your listeners this, because it's important to everyone.
Lisa Bodnar:
You're the one telling them. You're literally telling them.
Jaimie Gradus:
It's important for everyone to know this.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yes. Tell me.
Jaimie Gradus:
In the pandemic, in whatever stage of the pandemic we're in now, I don't know. There was a while where I called it late stage, and now I'm like that. We're back to mid, maybe.
Lisa Bodnar:
I know.
Jaimie Gradus:
But I now drink every beverage that I have out of a big wine glass. That's my new thing. Everything, even water.
Lisa Bodnar:
How does that make you feel?
Jaimie Gradus:
So good. So happy. Like a big wine glass full of water, a big wine glass full of Coors Light.
Lisa Bodnar:
It's like you're at a party all the time.
Jaimie Gradus:
I love it.
Lisa Bodnar:
You bailed on me last year, Jaimie.
Jaimie Gradus:
Yes, I did. I'm not that interesting. I was like, "You know what? I don't to tank this podcast with an episode about me."
Lisa Bodnar:
But I forced you. I twisted your arm and here we are again.
Jaimie Gradus:
I wanted to do it despite bailing. So I'm glad to be here. Thanks for having me on the pod.
Lisa Bodnar:
You're friend of the pod. I couldn't not have you. This podcast would not be complete without my Epi bestie, Jaimie Gradus.
Jaimie Gradus:
This is fun. This is not our first time on a podcast together.
Lisa Bodnar:
Do you know that was my first time ever on a podcast, Jaimie?
Jaimie Gradus:
Me too.
Lisa Bodnar:
With Matt.
Jaimie Gradus:
And my second time ever.
Lisa Bodnar:
Do you remember how nervous we were?
Jaimie Gradus:
Yes, I do. I felt a little nervous about this too. We're just talking about not science, which feels easier for this.
Lisa Bodnar:
The first few times I was incredibly nervous, but before Matt. Jaimie, I think I just kept texting you, "I'm going to throw up." It was really fun.
Jaimie Gradus:
It was good. It was great.
Lisa Bodnar:
Jaimie, do you remember when we met?
Jaimie Gradus:
Of course, who could forget? We met at a very fun SER in Denver-
Lisa Bodnar:
No.
Jaimie Gradus:
Colorado. I'm already wrong. I'm already wrong. Wait, it wasn't. The Denver year was the next year?
Lisa Bodnar:
The Denver year is when we hung out together.
Jaimie Gradus:
Okay.
Lisa Bodnar:
It was the Seattle year before that.
Jaimie Gradus:
At that place.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah.
Jaimie Gradus:
At that restaurant.
Lisa Bodnar:
I remember what I was wearing. I had a yellow dress on.
Jaimie Gradus:
I remember what I was wearing too. I had a black dress on. I could have guessed that and have been right basically. And I remember that somebody wanted to take a picture of us together and I said, "Oh, hold on. Let me put on lipstick." And you were like, "I like you. I want to put on lipstick too." And that was it. It all started then.
Lisa Bodnar:
True friends.
Jaimie Gradus:
Yep.
Lisa Bodnar:
And we relate so much because we need to take 14 pictures before we like anyone.
Jaimie Gradus:
Yeah. At least we'd be lucky to get away with 14. Yes.
Lisa Bodnar:
I'm wondering Jaimie, what are a couple of your best SER memories?
Jaimie Gradus:
My best SER memories. What a great question that I'm totally unprepared for.
Lisa Bodnar:
And you don't have to include me in one of these SER memories. So don't feel pressure.
Jaimie Gradus:
Certainly all the time we've spent together at SER is a major highlight of it for me. That's the case of any of our close group of friends that we're now so lucky to have that we see at that meeting every year. Just to get to do this job with such wonderful people who are so smart and so kind and fun. You are absolutely included among my best memories because it's all the great times we've had. And if I had to name some very specific times, so you and I were both winners of the Lilienfeld, which is now the Tyroler.
Lisa Bodnar:
Right.
Jaimie Gradus:
Which was the craziest thing to me in the world that I won that. That speech was terrifying to give, as I'm sure you remember.
Lisa Bodnar:
Terrifying.
Jaimie Gradus:
But it's one of my proudest career accomplishments so this day having won that.
Lisa Bodnar:
Love that.
Jaimie Gradus:
And so that certainly was a great moment for me. I don't know. I think about at SER I always say I get some of my best grant ideas at SER. I actually try to spend some of SER at sessions that aren't within psych epi to see what other people are doing elsewhere and see if I can apply it to psych epi. That's one of my good getting grant secrets.
Lisa Bodnar:
What is SER mean to you Jaimie?
Jaimie Gradus:
SER I feel like in the beginning it was where to me, and I think that this feeling was true among everybody in my doctoral program at the time, really the most rigorous incredible work was being presented, was being discussed. SER was really like the big leagues, it felt like then. So to win that award then felt like a nod of approval that, again, I can't believe I got. But meant so much to me. And then over time, I think it's become where I go to see my close collaborators and friends and continue projects, develop new projects. It's become a real incubator space for thinking about things and working on new things all the while seeing people and having fun. And so it's certainly what it's meant to me has evolved over time, but I love it. I love it so much. What does it mean to you?
Lisa Bodnar:
I hadn't thought about that before I asked you. Probably not surprisingly, it means like community to me. It is my intellectual home. I think beyond my intellectual home, it's my career emotional home.
Jaimie Gradus:
Yes.
Lisa Bodnar:
I could go to nutrition meetings. There are plenty of nutrition meetings that I used to go to and I don't go to them anymore because if I have to choose just a couple a year, I want to go to SER. The science is very good, but I go for the people. It's just like a space where I feel totally authentically me and accepted for me. It's...
Jaimie Gradus:
It's so nice.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. It's great.
Jaimie Gradus:
It's wonderful.
Lisa Bodnar:
I've always viewed you as this incredibly successful grant writer.
Jaimie Gradus:
That's so nice.
Lisa Bodnar:
But you've shared many times that you feel when you get that grant that you're like, "I'll never get another one again."
Jaimie Gradus:
Yes.
Lisa Bodnar:
Or when you put in. Any grant you put in you're like, "Is never going to get funded." It's like a lot of imposter syndrome that comes through. And I wanted to just mention how totally successful you are and yet that still leaks out. So tell me about that.
Jaimie Gradus:
Do you want to be a person who's like, "I'm freaking great at this, everyone." First of all I don't-
Lisa Bodnar:
No, there is a difference. There is a gap between being that arrogant person and being the imposter.
Jaimie Gradus:
Yeah. I guess that's my own way of protecting myself against the randomness of it. Because there is this element of like... Look I've had two R01s in back to back section meetings, one in February, one in May. Where the February one gets a fundable score on the first round and the May one is not even discussed. Lots of similarities between the two, except for the question. And so there is this element of randomness to it all and lack of who you get assigned and things like that. I don't think it's ever solvable, right. It's never like, "Oh, I've got that randomness figured out here, so I'm going to write this to beat that." So maybe it's my own way of being like, "I'm going to believe that it's not going to go well. And then if it does, that's a nice a surprise." But it's even weird for me to hear you say I'm a successful grant writer. I don't think of myself a successful R01 getter, which I know is weird to say given-
Lisa Bodnar:
Objectively-
Jaimie Gradus:
What I said two minutes ago.
Lisa Bodnar:
You are a successful grant writer.
Jaimie Gradus:
I don't know. I've not yet reached the point where I could take it happening to believe it means anything about my ability to do this. It's not a meritocracy, right? There are plenty of people we know who are brilliant, who have a hard time getting R01s.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yes.
Jaimie Gradus:
I haven't had yet had a hard time getting R01s, but I don't think it means anything about me compared to them.
Lisa Bodnar:
It's not necessarily about the science as it is like the packaging of the idea.
Jaimie Gradus:
Yes. Well, I'm a good salesperson. I will give myself that. That comes from growing up in the Bronx. I'm a natural hustler. Yes. I will give myself that.
Lisa Bodnar:
Jaimie, you have so many great stories of growing in the Bronx and the hard living that you had. Is there anything you'd want to share about that?
Jaimie Gradus:
One challenge of growing up in a place like that is that you learn early on in life there's just not enough money, not enough jobs, not enough resources of any kind. Seeing that so close up so early on in your life teaches you things. It changes the way you think about the world for sure. Seeing all kinds of other stuff that would fall into the realm of actual trauma happens when you grow up in the Bronx. But I think growing up at the Bronx made a better epidemiologist. I really, really, really do. I had to be street smart. I had to be street smart early. My parents were overprotective and I wasn't a kid that was allowed to be out wandering around or anything like that. But regardless you have to be pretty street smart, pretty early.
You have to have a lot of common sense. Like I said before, you have to be a hustler, right. You have to be like, "I'm going to get in there. I'm going to do this job. I'm going to do it great. I'm going to try to make some money." And those are all characteristics that were in me from early on because of living there that are things I applied to epidemiology. Being good salesperson when it comes to grants or working hard or being a good problem solver. All of that has its roots in the Bronx because there are problems to be solved there. Right? I wouldn't change it. I have a lot of crazy Bronx stories. So when I was a kid, I grew up in an apartment building and the elevator would always be broken. You would sometimes get on. The door would open, there would just be a brick wall in front of you.
You didn't know where you were. You didn't know if you were below the lobby, in between floors somehow. And so there were staircases and a lot of times what would happen, I don't know a lot of times. Listen, if it happens during your childhood, it feels like it happens a lot. But there were times where the elevator would be broken and you would open the door to the staircase and somebody would've broken all the light bulbs in the whole staircase. So then you would've to make your way up the steps... I lived on the fourth floor, you'd have to make your way up in the pitch black, hoping that someone didn't break the light bulbs to kill you. That they were just doing it to be funny, which was often the case in my building. My building was an Avenue Q type cast of characters. But you're grappling with stuff like that from the very beginning of your life, it teaches you how to be scrappy in a way.
Lisa Bodnar:
So we did this ask me anything thing, because Jaimie was feeling so insecure about the fact that maybe-
Jaimie Gradus:
I'm boring. We were going to do a Christmas episode last time.
Lisa Bodnar:
We were.
Jaimie Gradus:
It was going to be really boring everyone.
Lisa Bodnar:
No, It was going to be great. And so we were like, "Let's do and ask me anything." Because Jaimie was like, "I'll be interesting enough to come up with my own things."
Jaimie Gradus:
Well, I'm listening to another new podcast, it's an advice podcast and it's very fun. That's what gave me the idea.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay. Well, no one asked us for advice unfortunately.
Jaimie Gradus:
I know. I'm like where's all the advice questions? We would give great advice. We could have an advice podcast that was so much fun.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay. So we asked four questions. And so our buddy Kerry Keyes asked-
Jaimie Gradus:
I love Kerry.
Lisa Bodnar:
Good love. You've lived in Boston for a long time despite growing up in the Bronx. Can you talk us through your decision to stay in Boston and what you miss about the greatest city in the world? Kerry's very unbiased.
Jaimie Gradus:
I know New York is the greatest city in the world. I haven't answered that, before I answer that. I want to say something about Kerry.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yes.
Jaimie Gradus:
And I've never told Kerry this and so I'll tell her on this podcast.
Lisa Bodnar:
Do I need Kleenex?
Jaimie Gradus:
Yeah. So Kerry and I came up at the same time and you can envision a world where Kerry and I are slightly different people. And coming up at the same time, over the last 11 or 12 years that we've been doing this and really have a relationship now where we just hate each other. And it's like nothing but competitiveness and ugliness. And that is not what happened. Kerry and I have become very good friends. We collaborate on a lot. And it's one of the things that I feel honestly proudest of about this career. And that I think is of all the things I've done. The thing I hope people take as a role model, more than a lot of other stuff, as in as example, more than a lot of other stuff. Is you don't have to be competitive, you don't have to worry.
There's enough good things to go around, work hard, focus on your own stuff, make your own stuff the best it can be. And good stuff can happen to multiple people. And so I love my relationship with Kerry and I love the way that it turned out and that it's turned into something lovely.
Lisa Bodnar:
I love that.
Jaimie Gradus:
But to Kerry's question, I'm a New Yorker. I love New York so much. New York is my home. And I came to Boston for grad school at BU and I've had different reasons for staying in Boston, but I have to say as much as I love New York and Kerry is right. It is the greatest city in the world. There is something really nice about Boston too, in the livability of it. And I know anybody that's not from a major city will think that is the craziest thing anyone's ever said. But if you're from New York city, Boston is a small town, Boston to me is like living in the middle of nowhere. I live nine miles from the center of Boston in a house I own that I was able to buy as a young professional. The city is more livable in a lot of ways than New York.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay. Marcia Pescador Jimenez. She asked-
Jaimie Gradus:
I love Marcia.
Lisa Bodnar:
How do you and I help each other succeed? I thought this was so cute.
Jaimie Gradus:
Well, I think back to that time with our lipsticks in whatever the name of that bar was at SER. One of the things that always was a challenge for me when I started in this career was that I am a certain type of person. I am a person who gets my nails done, actually in the pandemic I learned how to do them myself. They look pretty good.
Lisa Bodnar:
They look really good.
Jaimie Gradus:
I like lipsticks. I like bags. And when I move to Boston my first job was at a Mass General Hospital. If you think I'm at all Bronxy now you should have seen 23 year old Jaimie walking into MGH literally directly from the Bronx. But I couldn't not be myself. As much as it felt like there was this pressure in academia to be more serious or whatever. But when I met you, you're a person who's so successful. You're way more advanced in this career than me. Should I say way more? Does way more bother... You're somewhat more advanced in this career than me and you're you too. You have been a great model for me in that way of a person who can be so successful and still be you and be both things at the same time.
And you're not like I have to be serious or I have to be this, or I can't wear my lipstick or my hair can't be pink, because I have to be smart. And those two things can't co-occur. You've really helped me, I think be successful towards life. Maybe not necessarily, but my life and being who I am, who is a person who maybe isn't a stereotypical serious academic. It's okay. So that's how you've helped me.
Lisa Bodnar:
Thank you. My answer is quite similar, which I don't mean to make it sound like I'm just taking your answer. But if someone were to ask me the most Jaimie moment I have had with you, it would be at SER in Miami. Do you what I'm going to tell you?
Jaimie Gradus:
I don't, but there was just so many things happened in Miami. The smells.
Lisa Bodnar:
That's right. It smelled so bad.
Jaimie Gradus:
The molds on the carpet.
Lisa Bodnar:
So hot. We were just so hot.
Jaimie Gradus:
It so hot. Oh, I discovered Miami in June-
Lisa Bodnar:
In June. Who would go to Miami in June?
Jaimie Gradus:
No. And As I age I need to only be colder and colder. I'm about to move to the Arctic.
Lisa Bodnar:
So at Miami in SER and I'm not going to cry as I say this, but I had a really rough night. Which is not to say that SER... SER is a wonderful, fabulous time, but there are big feelings.
Jaimie Gradus:
Yes. Things can happen at SER.
Lisa Bodnar:
Things can happen, especially associated with being over tired and perhaps drinking a little too much.
Jaimie Gradus:
Just a little. One too many.
Lisa Bodnar:
Right. Right. And I texted you. I didn't know you very well, and we found a secret spot.
Jaimie Gradus:
In the luggage claim area behind the front desk.
Lisa Bodnar:
You just validated all of my feelings. And you told me stories of your own similar troubles that you had had. I just remember thinking that the things you told me were incredibly vulnerable, but it was like in that moment, you were like, this is the time to share this thing because it's going to help her so much. I will never, ever, ever forget that. I was a wreck and you were just this rock. It was so... Ugh. I'm like getting weepy.
Jaimie Gradus:
I know. I'm so happy, I could do that for you. I'm so happy I was there.
Lisa Bodnar:
No one else could have helped in that moment, the way that you did. Truly.
Jaimie Gradus:
Oh my God that means so much to me. That is the number one thing I want. I think about that sometimes. It's so morbid, but I'm like, "If I die tomorrow, what is the thing I would want people to say about me?" The first thing when they called each other. And I would want them to say, "She really tried to help people. Like her friends, anyone that needed something, she tried to help where she could."
Lisa Bodnar:
Two other questions. Shay Stabler-Morris asked, what skills or knowledge do you wish more epidemiologists had?
Jaimie Gradus:
Oh, that's really, really, really tough. My honest answer is related probably to soft skills, honestly, more than any kind of technical expertise. The ability to work in a group, the ability to communicate well, all of these things that I really do think help you be successful in this career.
Lisa Bodnar:
Someone by the name of WBOB, I think. We are aware of WBOB, which is the West Bank Office Building, WBOB.
Jaimie Gradus:
Is that what that say? I never knew what that stood for.
Lisa Bodnar:
It is the building where the school public health people have at University of Minnesota have their offices. I've been to WBOB many at times.
Jaimie Gradus:
I've never been invited to WBOB. I do think somebody should make a WBOB song set to the tune of WKRP in Cincinnati. Official request, Rachel.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. Rachel, the owner of the WBOB Twitter account.
Jaimie Gradus:
She's so funny. She's one of the funniest people out there.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. I need to get her on in here. WBOB wants to know what's your favorite school public health building?
Jaimie Gradus:
The Talbot Building, of course at BUSPH.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay.
Jaimie Gradus:
My gorgeous Talbot Building. It's like a 100 years old. It looks like a big castle. Sorry WBOB. I have to vote Talbot. I'm sorry.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay. There was a question from a friend, how much is too much to spend on fucking lipstick?
Jaimie Gradus:
I think that question is from Tom, who was once horrified at SEATAC Airport when I bought a lipstick and a lip liner. By the way, incredible lip liner, MAC Half-Red goes with everything. MAC Half-Red, remember where you heard it. And it came to $38 and he could have taken off himself on the runway because he was so horrified by the class of that lipstick and that lip liner, which were incredible, worth every penny.
Lisa Bodnar:
What's an ordinary moment of the day that brings you joy?
Jaimie Gradus:
Oh, my first sip of coffee. Literally it gives me life. That saying is very overused, but I come to life with my first sip of coffee. Really my happiest moments of any day are if my daughter is somewhere the second I see her again. Anytime I'm picking her up somewhere at school, at camp, getting my kid back is always the best moment of my day.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. That reunion, I love that reunion. That's really nice. Because then they're not annoying yet and you've had a chance to miss them.
Jaimie Gradus:
We haven't started talking about dinner yet.
Lisa Bodnar:
Right. If you could fly into orbit or visit the deep sea, which would you choose?
Jaimie Gradus:
To deep sea. Because I think when you get out... Seeing the Earth, looking back from orbit and seeing the Earth would be absolutely incredible. Right?
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah.
Jaimie Gradus:
But everything else out there is just darkness and weightlessness. And at least in the deep sea, you might come across a shipwreck or some colorful fish.
Lisa Bodnar:
I think the deep sea is also very dark. They're both desolate. I don't know.
Jaimie Gradus:
Deep sea is dark. I'm picturing it like I would see it in a movie, but that's obviously not what it really looks like when you're [inaudible 00:29:32].
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. The deep sea, you need a fucking submarine.
Jaimie Gradus:
Could we assume that somehow... Okay. Can we assume that it's the deep sea, but somehow I have the ability to see?
Lisa Bodnar:
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Jaimie Gradus:
Through darkness, I've lived there a while and my vision has adapted. Okay. That I'm still going deep sea.
Lisa Bodnar:
And what do you want to see in the deep sea?
Jaimie Gradus:
Everything. Right. Whatever's down there. Whatever they got.
Lisa Bodnar:
I don't know. There's not much down there.
Jaimie Gradus:
Fish, the bottom. Whatever's that way down to the bottom. Like rocks, I guess. Like a shipwreck, I mentioned. I’d love to see a shipwreck.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay. I get that you're pretty into shipwrecks. All right. What Wizard of Oz character do you relate to the most?
Jaimie Gradus:
Oh, I love that question. Who do I relate to the most? Well, if we're talking this stage of career wise, maybe the Wizard, because it is a lot of like, I'm back here and yet you still don't really know you're doing.
Lisa Bodnar:
Totally. You're this small person sounding like you're this big powerful being.
Jaimie Gradus:
Exactly.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yep. I myself like the Wicked Witch. She is a bad ass.
Jaimie Gradus:
You're that the Wicked Witch. You're a nice witch the boundaries.
Lisa Bodnar:
That's a huge compliment. Thank you. What's the last show you binged and loved?
Jaimie Gradus:
I'm a big TV person. That's the other thing about me. We are binging this show Bosch. It's a detective show. It is so good. I cannot even tell you, we are loving it.
Lisa Bodnar:
What is the trashiest TV?
Jaimie Gradus:
I'm a huge 90 Day Fiance person to the point where I am actually a Patreon subscriber to a 90 Day Fiance Recap podcast. I love 90 Day Fiance.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay.
Jaimie Gradus:
Of all kinds. I like 90 Day Fiance:The Other Way. I like 90 Day Fiance: Happily Ever After? 90 Day Fiance: The Single Life is new now.
Lisa Bodnar:
Wow.
Jaimie Gradus:
I also am a big Real Housewives person. Atlanta is the best city. I am very good at compartmentalizing. So I am working when I am working and I am working hard. And when I am not working, you can find me watching 90 Day Fiance. I turn it off. I step away. And at night I'm doing something else. I'm doing something that I don't have to think about that much. And I save all my thinking for when I'm working.
Lisa Bodnar:
When we were talking about how you helped me succeed. I think one of the things is how you validate my need to step away from work. We'll see people who are working super, super, super hard and working at night. And we're just like, woo.
Jaimie Gradus:
Like, ooh.
Lisa Bodnar:
And then it's nice to have someone else who can just be like, "No. Work hard when you're at work and then let it go at night."
Jaimie Gradus:
Let go. There's just so much more to life then. I love our job. I feel so lucky to do our job and frankly, nothing else I know how to do at this point. I've spent my entire life doing this essentially. But I do think it's really important to step away. And I am very comfortable if it ultimately means I'm a little bit less successful.
Lisa Bodnar:
I'm going to list a number of things and I'd like you to tell me yes or no for each.
Jaimie Gradus:
Oh, okay.
Lisa Bodnar:
Designer handbags.
Jaimie Gradus:
Big yes. Giant yes. Biggest yes of my life. One of my first words was book a book and I meant pocketbook. One of my first words of this human existence was book a book. Always been obsessed with bags.
Lisa Bodnar:
I love that.
Jaimie Gradus:
Obsessed.
Lisa Bodnar:
Okay. Flannel sheets.
Jaimie Gradus:
In the Winter. Yes.
Lisa Bodnar:
Jelly donuts.
Jaimie Gradus:
Oh no. I hate donuts.
Lisa Bodnar:
Really?
Jaimie Gradus:
And there are so few foods I hate. I love food. I hate donuts. I don't know. They're too sweet. It's like a bajillion calories, but you barely truly ate anything. You actually didn't really eat anything when you ate it.
Lisa Bodnar:
Yeah. Right. It's like air and-
Jaimie Gradus:
And fat and sugar and they're messy. There's never a time you're going to eat a donut and your hands aren't going to feel disgusting after. That's just not a reality. It's too much. They're too much for me.
Lisa Bodnar:
Cardi B.
Jaimie Gradus:
Oh, love Cardi B.
Lisa Bodnar:
Water parks. There's only one right answer.
Jaimie Gradus:
I can't.
Lisa Bodnar:
I Know.
Jaimie Gradus:
It's just all I picture is floating Band-Aids. It's just like a sea of floating Band-Aids. There's just no way and my kid loves the water. She's a big water park kid. So I've been to some. It's tough. It's really, really tough.
Lisa Bodnar:
There are too many feet.
Jaimie Gradus:
It's just all feet.
Lisa Bodnar:
It's just all feet and too much flesh.
Jaimie Gradus:
It's all flesh. It's all feet, flesh and Band-Aids. I refuse to believe that water's clean.
Lisa Bodnar:
Doing shots.
Jaimie Gradus:
Fun. I can't do that anymore because I'm old and one drink and I'm asleep.
Lisa Bodnar:
I've seen you do shots, Jaimie Gradus.
Jaimie Gradus:
Well, something happens to me at SER where I feel my ability to drink actually increases. If I try to drink the same amount at home that I drink at SER, I can't do it.
Lisa Bodnar:
Carrot cake.
Jaimie Gradus:
Ugh, disgusting. I hate carrot. Me saying five minutes ago that I don't hate a lot of foods was obviously wrong. I hate everything about carrot cake. I don't want vegetables to be involved in my desserts. I hate when it has chunks of carrot, I can literally puke just thinking about it, when there're chunks of carrot in it. People try to trick you thinking it's delicious with good cream cheese frosting. That's a trick. It is not delicious. I literally will rather not have cake than have carrot cake. And that is a big statement coming from me. Because I always want cake and don't come near me with a carrot cake. It's upsetting to me that that was even invented. It really is. I love a decisive answer.
Lisa Bodnar:
That's why I like you.
Jaimie Gradus:
I like this, I like that. I don't like something else, that's okay too. But I just don't like it. Love carrot cake. Listeners of this podcast, love carrot cake. I hope you enjoy every morsel.
Lisa Bodnar:
Thank you for doing this with me, Jaimie.
Jaimie Gradus:
Thank you for having me. This is so much fun.
Lisa Bodnar:
You're the best.
Jaimie Gradus:
No you are.
Last time we ever had a Lisa Bodnar, I guess that's how you want to pronounce it.
Lisa Bodnar:
Bodnar. Jaimie Gradus cannot pronounce my last name to save her life.
Jaimie Gradus:
There's an A in it.
Lisa Bodnar:
There is.
Jaimie Gradus:
It's nar.
Lisa Bodnar:
Now when you call me Bodnar, I like it. It's just grown on me. It's super grown on me.
Jaimie Gradus:
That happens to me all time too. People don't know if Gradys or Gradus. I'm just like, "It's whatever you want it to be."
