Sameera Nayak, MA on antidepressants changing her life and being a rescue dog mom

I am happy to present to you a delightful conversation I had with Sameera Nayak, MA, who is currently a doctoral student in Population Health in the Bouvé College of Health Sciences at the Institute for Health Equity and Social Justice Research at Northeastern University. Sameera tells me about immigrating to the US from India at 18 for college and navigating the academic system as an immigrant. She very courageously talks about past depressive episodes, her internalized stigma associated with medication use, her decision to start meds, and how they have changed her life for the better. I loved this story! Rescue dogs, cheugi (replaces cringey), eating nutella with a spoon, and bad taste in music. Enjoy! 

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Lisa Bodnar:

Although today it was 80 degrees here.

Sameera Nayak:

Well, I don't know what it was out here. I haven't been outside.

Lisa Bodnar:

Were you just dissertating?

Sameera Nayak:

I was trying to dissertate. I don't want to say yes because I was on the journey to dissertating, and I was responding to a review you that I was unhappy with some of the reviewer comments. So I was writing my first draft that will then be changed into an polite, appropriate draft.

Lisa Bodnar:

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Shiny Epi People. I'm Lisa Bodnar. I'm really happy that you're here today. Please follow the show on our social media on Instagram and Twitter at Shiny Epi People. That's where I post additional content. If you would like to financially support the show, please go to my Patreon, patreon.com/shinyepipeople. Thanks to the new patrons that have just signed up in the past week or two. And thanks to the old patrons who have been around, and who've trusted me for quite some time. I really appreciate all of you. And if you don't want to become a patron, that's no big deal. You can just still enjoy the show and share it with your friends. That actually helps a lot. Please try to rate and review the show on Apple podcasts if you can. That actually makes a big difference for me and how the podcast success is viewed.

              Also, try to download the episode if you can even if you delete it after you listen, that also makes a big difference. Today is the 50th episode. That's halfway to 100 it's one quarter of the way to 200. I mean, I could go on because my math is great, and I am so grateful to all of you who have listened and supported the show. I would never have gotten this far without you going on this journey with me. So thank you so much. So the news from here is that I'm going to start putting out the show every other week instead of weekly. Now I know that I don't need to say anything further that basically that can just be a full stop, but because these are themes that we often touch on in the show, I wanted to just explain a little bit.

              So I've been agonizing over this decision to move to biweekly, and as a high achiever, many of you can relate, that of course, I want to maintain this very high bar that I arbitrarily set for myself. Of course, got to get an A plus in podcasting. And importantly, I know that many of you look forward to weekly episodes as part of your routines when you walk your dog on Saturdays or drive into work on Monday or go for your run. And I'm so flattered by this, and I want to keep giving you that bit of joy and connection every week. And as a recovering people pleaser, my instinct is to avoid disappointing you. But we talk a lot about on the show about saying no to things and people, if those things and people are not the best for us in the moment.

              And what I know right now is that I am so overwhelmed. This fall has just felt brutal with the world opening up and all of the things that seem to need to get done now. Last season, I always had two or three episodes in the can waiting to come out, and now I'm rushing to even just get one out because things have just become busy. I don't want to disappoint you, but I need to continue to remind myself that it is okay to disappoint people if it means keeping myself happier. I also know that you are the most wonderful listeners and although you may be disappointed, you will absolutely understand. I think it's just important for me to model some of the things that I often preach about here, but there are 50 other episodes.

              So lots of other content to keep you going when you're looking for something to listen to when you walk that dog. So onto today's episode, number 50. Today I speak with Sameera Nayak. Sameera is a PhD candidate in population health in the Bouve College of Health Sciences at Northeastern University. She's also a graduate researcher at the Institute for Health Equity and Social Justice Research. Sameera studies the social and political determinants of health and health inequities. In particular, she's interested in mental health systems building, political polarization and health, and the role of immigrant status and policy in women's health.

              Sameera and I talk about a lot of different things including her own immigration to the U.S., her internalized stigma related to antidepressants, and then ultimately her taking antidepressants and changing her life for the better. We also mention something about the TV show, Squid Game, which at the time I recorded with Sameera, I had never heard of before and subsequently I have watched the first couple of episodes and it super freaks me out. I don't know that I can keep watching it. It's really scary. I hope you like it though. Anyway, Sameera is delightful. I hope you enjoy this chat. Okay. Cheers Sameera.

Sameera Nayak:

Cheers. Yeah.

Lisa Bodnar:

Cheers.

Sameera Nayak:

Cheers for having me. This is so cool.

Lisa Bodnar:

So many things to talk about with you. I'm so happy to meet you.

Sameera Nayak:

Thank you.

Lisa Bodnar:

This is really nice. So Sameera you told me that you came to the U.S. 11 years ago.

Sameera Nayak:

So I came for undergrad. So I had just turned 18. I think my parents really wanted me to have an American, quote, unquote, education. Both of them have done bachelor's degrees in India. So they've been to college there, but I know that's something that they would have liked that wasn't an option for them, but now it was an option for me. And honestly, I was very excited to go someplace new. I was like, "Oh, I'm going to America. I watched all the TV shows three years after they come out."

Lisa Bodnar:

Yeah. That made you ready.

Sameera Nayak:

Well there's Gossip Girl, right? So I was the same... So there's Gossip Girl, there was Friends, there was Grey's Anatomy. Those were the three shows. And I was like, "Oh, this is America. I got it."

Lisa Bodnar:

Yeah.

Sameera Nayak:

"It's done."

Lisa Bodnar:

Were you scared? Your parents stayed behind. We should say that.

Sameera Nayak:

Yes.

Lisa Bodnar:

So your parents stayed behind, you were coming on your own.

Sameera Nayak:

So, I was very excited at the airport. My mom was obviously bawling and I was like, "Oh hey, whatever. I've taken a flight on my own before. I'll be fine." But then I called her once I got on the plane and I started crying.

Lisa Bodnar:

I'm sure.

Sameera Nayak:

And I was like, "Why didn't you come with me? How did you just leave me?" I mean, obviously she was traumatized. So apparently she... So it was Bombay, that's where I grew up, to Dubai to LA, that was the flight. And it's two and a half hours to Dubai. So she apparently was waiting up for me to land and be like, "I'm so sorry. I shouldn't have let you go." But it was fine, it was fine. Once I got here, I was like, "Okay." I went to orientation. I think I have an advantage because I went to English medium. That's what you call English speaking schools. So I didn't have a language barrier that a lot of people do. My parents are from two different parts of India, two different states. So they speak English to each other because neither of them can speak the other person's language.

Lisa Bodnar:

Okay.

Sameera Nayak:

So I think that made it much easier for me than for a lot of people because language is critical. But yeah, it was scary. And while I look back now I'm like, "Wow. I was a baby."

Lisa Bodnar:

You were a baby.

Sameera Nayak:

I was a fetus.

Lisa Bodnar:

My gosh, that would be my son doing that in two years. What?

Sameera Nayak:

But at the time it didn't feel... It felt exciting. I didn't know I was going to still be here. It was like, "Oh, I'll go to college. College is four years. They give you a five year visa. I'll do the one year working maybe, and then I'll go home." And then I didn't.

Lisa Bodnar:

And here you are.

Sameera Nayak:

I'm still here.

Lisa Bodnar:

So what do you miss about home?

Sameera Nayak:

The food. I'm sorry, but Indian food here is terrible.

Lisa Bodnar:

Is it really terrible? Tell me what's bad about it.

Sameera Nayak:

It really is. And I've lived in New York City and in LA, there's lots of, I mean, there's Indian people everywhere, but there's lots of Indian people in those places. It's just the variety is very limited. So the cuisine of India is extensive. Each state has its own cuisine often completely different from other states. There's just so much variety. And over here there's 10 items of which two are well made and it's kind of the same items. And it depends on who's been able to immigrate here. So there's certain parts of India where more people have immigrated from so the food represents that, but that's not what we grew up eating. And from the south, there are less people from the south here. So we ate a lot of seafood, a lot of meat. Whereas if you go to Indian restaurants here it's either chicken or it's vegetarian. We don't actually eat that much chicken at home. So I've just never been able to find it, but now I can make it.

Lisa Bodnar:

Yeah.

Sameera Nayak:

I had a turning point maybe two years ago where I realized if I don't learn how to make the food that I like, I'll just never eat it again.

Lisa Bodnar:

So you miss the food, and I assume you miss your family.

Sameera Nayak:

The feed people. Yeah. So my mom lives there, my dad lives there and my sister. I have one sister. I haven't been home since March of 2019.

Lisa Bodnar:

Oh wow.

Sameera Nayak:

And I haven't seen them since our wedding in October of 2019.

Lisa Bodnar:

Whoa, that's a-

Sameera Nayak:

So it's been a very long time.

Lisa Bodnar:

Being an immigrant in the academic system, what is that like?

Sameera Nayak:

It's interesting. So I have to be honest, when I first came here I didn't really think about immigration or what that meant. I was like, "Okay. They give you a visa when you go to other countries," which I had done before on vacation. "And then you stay there for the duration and then you leave." I didn't realize how restrictive the student visas are in terms of work that you can do or not do. And so you can only work 20 hours a week on campus. If you wanted to take on extra work, that's not an option. And technically you're not even supposed to take on extra unpaid work.

              Most people I've interacted with don't understand the immigration system. Even people who maybe they had a parent who immigrated or a grandparent, it's very different now post the nineties, post 9/11 than it was in the eighties or the seventies. When my uncle came over, it wasn't easy, but I think staying here, it was different. And I think now it's very punitive. There's a lot of anti-immigrant legislation, which there always has been, but the system is very unfriendly, and let me put it that way.

Lisa Bodnar:

Yeah.

Sameera Nayak:

And I'm on kind of the side that sees less hostility, right? I came on a visa. It's totally different, say, if I was undocumented, right? Then it's they're not even pretending to be nice to you. So for example when I graduated college, one of my friends was like, "So are you a citizen yet?" And I was like, "Well, actually, no, because there's no path for student visas." It just doesn't exist.

Lisa Bodnar:

How has being an immigrant enriched your life?

Sameera Nayak:

I've lived on two continents.

Lisa Bodnar:

Well, I lived in two states. So there.

Sameera Nayak:

Right. So it makes you very flexible. I feel like I adapt very easily when I meet new people. The whole idea of cultural competence just happens naturally because you're learning how to navigate two cultures. I do want to say that I would consider myself a voluntary immigrant, right? Nothing at home pushed me to come here. So I wanted to be here. So I think that's different than if you had to come here for whatever reason.

Lisa Bodnar:

So Sameera, because you listen to the show, you know that I love therapy.

Sameera Nayak:

Yes.

Lisa Bodnar:

You told me that you have... that this is important to you too. Can you share a little bit, whatever you're comfortable sharing?

Sameera Nayak:

Yeah. So ironically mental health and is kind of where my background is. And that's actually where all the research that I published till date is related to mental health. And I had my own internalized stigma, right? So the first time I went to therapy was in college. I was very depressed. Typical college campus was you get 10 sessions, not to call out UCLA, but at the time it was you get 10 sessions, and then like, "We'll try to refer you out." And at the time one of the people had suggested medication, and I was very reluctant. I these had all these... I knew things about it, but then when it applied to me it was totally different. And then since then I've had bouts of depression on and off, and during the pandemic, it was really exacerbated.

Lisa Bodnar:

Yeah. So bad.

Sameera Nayak:

And I started with the therapist and I was like, "I'm just going to try it." I mean it's silly or not silly, but how can I be writing papers about mental health stigma or medication use and believe it, but then when it comes to my own care, be like, "Oh, but I don't want to," right? What am I saying to myself? And it has been life changing. I'm a different person.

Lisa Bodnar:

Wow.

Sameera Nayak:

And I think I got probably at work and school, nobody knows that. I would say I'm a very high functioning, chirpy type of person. But my husband for example is like, "You are like a different person." And it's just like I feel like I can do things. Doing things is not as difficult as it was before. I always ended up doing them, but the effort it took was a lot. So now I'm like, "Okay, I'm going to talk about it. I'm going to tell people that this is great. You should do it." I wish I had done it early. I'm thinking about all those times that I was suffering, but I was like, "Oh, I don't want to."

              And my life is so much better for it. And I think part of the reason that I didn't was because I was like, "Well, I'm not that sick." You know when we assess depression of aside from your symptoms or functioning, right? How much is this impairing your functioning? I'm like, "Well, I'm in a PhD program. I just published a paper. I'm going to work. So I don't think I'm ill enough to need that." For people who didn't know me intimately, there might have been a little bit of like, "You don't seem depressed."

Lisa Bodnar:

Yeah.

Sameera Nayak:

"You seem great." And I would say it's a lot in the work setting. If anybody who works with me listens to this, they're going to be like, "What? You're so stunning. You're a sunshiny person. I'm like, "No, actually it's a black soul, but I have a sunshine exterior." I have my makeup and I'm on. And then I take it off and I'm off. And now I feel like I'm on, and I feel like myself, like a real person.

Lisa Bodnar:

I feel like when I have had bouts of depression it was always the energy that it took to live life was so much greater than it feels now. I would come home and just be dead because of the amount of... I had to just work myself up to be, quote, unquote, normal and then be home and be like... And it sounds like maybe that was your experience too.

Sameera Nayak:

A hundred percent. Yeah. So if you lived with me, you'd be like, "Okay." Yeah. It feels like you just have to kind of put on your... I always say I'm putting on my social face, and then it's just exhausting. I've always been able to do the thing. So even if I was in bed all day then I would stay up late and finish it. And so I think... And I mean, that wasn't always true. There was a semester in college where I did very poorly and that's actually what made me go to therapy because I was like, "Well I don't want to fail out of this." I've always been a relatively good student.

              And so that's probably the only time you can see it maybe documented anywhere. So I am on an atypical antidepressant. I'm not blunted at all as you can see. So I had kind of the same concerns like, "What if I'm a different person?" But when I took it, I realized that I had been a different person and now I was myself. Maybe you thought your... Or maybe I thought my personality was just like this brooding, miserable, I hate everything person. And then I took it and I'm like, "Oh maybe that was a... That's not me."

Lisa Bodnar:

Wow.

Sameera Nayak:

I mean, I'm not super positive penny, but misery doesn't have to be. It's not a personality trait.

Lisa Bodnar:

Wow.

Sameera Nayak:

And I don't feel blunted at all, but I do feel more in control. So when I am stressed out about something, I am not as overwhelmed. I'm like, "Okay. I have jobs that apparently all want 16 documents. Okay. Maybe I'll do two today. And if I don't get it done it's not like I'm useless."

Lisa Bodnar:

Yeah.

Sameera Nayak:

And just like, "Why am I even here? I'm just taking up space." So I think that is... Yeah. If anyone's listening and you're thinking about it I would recommend you try it if you have insurance that can cover it because... And if you don't like it, you can get weaned off it. It's not permanent. I don't think it changes you. I think it probably will bring out the version of yourself that was hidden or squashed inside.

Lisa Bodnar:

I love that. Thank you for sharing that.

Sameera Nayak:

Yeah.

Lisa Bodnar:

Okay. Sameera, you have dogs and they are rescues.

Sameera Nayak:

I'm obsessed with my dogs. I actually have their picture on the giant screen.

Lisa Bodnar:

Yeah, show me.

Sameera Nayak:

That's one. And I realize, I don't know if I can turn it the screen. That's the second one.

Lisa Bodnar:

Yes.

Sameera Nayak:

You can kind of see.

Lisa Bodnar:

I put them on my Instagram, didn't I?

Sameera Nayak:

Yes you did.

Lisa Bodnar:

Yes. Okay.

Sameera Nayak:

Yes. Yes.

Lisa Bodnar:

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Sameera Nayak:

So they're both rescues, they're both from the south. One is from Georgia, Mila, and was found in Tennessee. Mila is 70 pounds. Chase is a hundred. I'm four, eleven. I'm pretty short. And I can touch him. I can stroke his back without bending down.

Lisa Bodnar:

Yeah.

Sameera Nayak:

So when we're walking on the street, people are like, "This lady has a horse. This little girl has a horse."

Lisa Bodnar:

Yeah. They look like twins.

Sameera Nayak:

They're not related.

Lisa Bodnar:

Yeah. Yeah.

Sameera Nayak:

But he looked like her son and we're were like... Even the lady there, it was like, "You got to take this one. It looks like their family." She's a Pit Bull mix, and he's a Doberman mix. And the mixes have nothing, even the other bits that they have are nothing in common, but they look a lot alike. Everybody thinks they're related.

Lisa Bodnar:

Yeah. Go on my Instagram, scroll a little down.

Sameera Nayak:

Yes.

Lisa Bodnar:

You're going to see them. Yeah.

Sameera Nayak:

They also have an Instagram. I forgot what it was. It was Mila and Chase. Oh my God.

Lisa Bodnar:

Sameera, come on. Get it. Get it together.

Sameera Nayak:

I know. I haven't opened Instagram for so long.

Lisa Bodnar:

This is your chance to promote their Instagram.

Sameera Nayak:

I know. I'm so embarrassed.

Lisa Bodnar:

No, that's okay.

Sameera Nayak:

Okay. When I changed their name, it used to be golden girl Mila. But then once we got Chase, we had to add in his name. Oh, it's Mila loves the Chase because it's Mila and Chase.

Lisa Bodnar:

Oh, that's cute. Okay. Well don't feel bad. I sometimes have a hard time remembering my kids' birthdays.

Sameera Nayak:

You forgive me?

Lisa Bodnar:

I totally forgive you. Okay. I'm going to follow them.

Sameera Nayak:

Yes, definitely do.

Lisa Bodnar:

Yeah. So why was it important for you to get rescue dogs?

Sameera Nayak:

The first thing was that we didn't have the money to get a pure breed dog. Do you have dogs? You don't have dogs, right?

Lisa Bodnar:

I don't. No. I'm allergic to dogs.

Sameera Nayak:

Oh, okay. They're expensive. A pure breed like golden retriever is $2,000 or more.

Lisa Bodnar:

I know, I know.

Sameera Nayak:

So medical student, PhD student, not on our budget.

Lisa Bodnar:

Yeah.

Sameera Nayak:

So that was the first thing. And then when I read more into it, I realized that I didn't know that there was this dog overpopulation problem because in the Northeast, you don't see stray dogs. It's not a thing, but apparently in other parts of the country you do. And there's a lot of backyard breeding. And I started to read more about breeders and how they breed the dogs. And we went to a shelter and I feel like once you go to a shelter, you're just like... Shelter is so sad even the nicest ones. The people there working are always really nice. But they're in their little kennels and they're just... Why? It was like... Once I went to one shelter, I went to one in Boston.

Lisa Bodnar:

Oh God.

Sameera Nayak:

And I was like, "Okay, well we have to get this dog home."

Lisa Bodnar:

So sad.

Sameera Nayak:

And yeah. And I mean, people don't know this, but if you pick out a dog from a shelter rescue, they usually come fixed or if they're not already fixed, they will pay for the surgery. That's what happened with ours. They come with all their shots. I know that people sometimes feel like, "If I'm rescuing the dog, why do I have to fill out a 10 paid application?" It's because a lot of dogs get returned. [crosstalk 00:22:27]. So they're a good shelter, and rescue is careful. We wanted another dog initially, and they were like, "This dog kind of has some behavioral issues, and both of you have never had a dog on your own before, just family dogs. So you might want to start with a dog that will probably be a little easier." So they're very responsible. Yeah. I'm just like, "There's so many dogs that need a home. I wish I could have all of them."

Lisa Bodnar:

Sameera, do you have anything you're embarrassed to admit that you like?

Sameera Nayak:

I'm not embarrassed, but I have what people would consider really bad taste in music. I don't know any of the classics.

Lisa Bodnar:

Okay.

Sameera Nayak:

I only listen to the radio. My playlists are all Taylor Swift and Arianna Grande, and I'm not embarrassed.

Lisa Bodnar:

Yeah.

Sameera Nayak:

But I would not say that a person who's into music would look at my playlist and be like, "Oh, you have great taste in music." I probably have the same as maybe a 14 year old. And see [inaudible 00:23:35].

Lisa Bodnar:

Yeah. I hate to admit that I kind like Justin Bieber's voice. I like his voice. I'm so embarrassed about this, but...

Sameera Nayak:

Now everybody knows.

Lisa Bodnar:

I don't know. I think he has a nice voice. He's not the greatest person.

Sameera Nayak:

Right.

Lisa Bodnar:

But I don't know. I like when he sings.

Sameera Nayak:

It's okay. We're all allowed to have our dark secrets.

Lisa Bodnar:

Can you tell me a story of kindness in academia that you saw or you were a part of?

Sameera Nayak:

There are so many actually.

Lisa Bodnar:

That's lovely.

Sameera Nayak:

I've had many great mentors, but the mentor I had when I was in college, I started working in a research assistant, data entry, that type of stuff, and she was a postdoc and she's a professor now. And she really took me under her wing, and I would not have applied to grad school if she didn't tell me that I can do it.

Lisa Bodnar:

Wow.

Sameera Nayak:

And she may not know this and I don't think she listened because she's not an Epi. But when I got into a master's program, they were trying to put me in touch with a potential mentor and they accidentally sent me my whole application with the letters of rec. And her letter of rec was they... I have it saved on my desktop and I open it whenever I'm feeling horrible.

Lisa Bodnar:

Yeah.

Sameera Nayak:

It was the nicest thing ever. It was so lovely. It was multiple, it was long detailed and it was just so kind, and so I would say that. And two of my friends, we would not have gotten through the program, I think, without each other.

Lisa Bodnar:

Yeah.

Sameera Nayak:

Other people, they just don't understand. Yeah. And in both their dissertations, they have little acknowledgements to the other two. So I will definitely have one in mine as well.

Lisa Bodnar:

I love that. What kind of kid were you?

Sameera Nayak:

I was an unathletic bookworm. I loved reading, and well didn't read anything in particular. My mom is a big reader so our house was a library. Also, I grew up in a very urban area. So I don't know how to ride a bike, which over here people freak out. They're like, "What do you mean? You didn't ride to the end of your cul-de-sac?" I was like, "No, I lived in apartments my whole life. And I'm definitely not riding on the street unless I want to die."

Lisa Bodnar:

Yeah.

Sameera Nayak:

There were no kids. I was born in Bombay then we moved to Deli then we moved back to Bombay. Huge, huge metropolitan, very urban areas. And it would be everything from a Nancy Drew to whatever my mom was reading. Yeah. And it was like a form of escapism, I guess. I would just imagine being in these fields and having picnics, and there were no fields. There are no fields where I live. There was an ocean, but the beach, it wasn't very clean at the time. It's clean now. So it wasn't like I was laying on the beach, these things. And then now I just can't read for fun.

Lisa Bodnar:

It's hard to do, isn't it?

Sameera Nayak:

I buy the books. If I have to read something, it has to be really light and fluffy.

Lisa Bodnar:

Me too.

Sameera Nayak:

And even then, yeah, nothing dark. I can't even watch... Have you heard of Squid Games?

Lisa Bodnar:

No.

Sameera Nayak:

Everybody that I know has been talking about it. It's a new Netflix show.

Lisa Bodnar:

Okay.

Sameera Nayak:

I guess. But apparently it's very violent and I don't watch violent things.

Lisa Bodnar:

Okay. Did you watch Game of Thrones?

Sameera Nayak:

I watched it till the third season and then I stopped because it was so violent.

Lisa Bodnar:

Okay.

Sameera Nayak:

I was like, "I'm over this." I won't see a movie if I know that it's very violent. Handmaid's tale, not watching it.

Lisa Bodnar:

Me neither. No way.

Sameera Nayak:

Why do we need to watch it? We're living it.

Lisa Bodnar:

We're living it.

Sameera Nayak:

Yeah. Oh, I am embarrassed to say I watch Say Yes to the Dress, TLC.

Lisa Bodnar:

I used to watch that a long... basically when I was around getting married, I watched that too. And I'd be like, "No, that dress, bad choice."

Sameera Nayak:

Yeah. The characters in this family are stressing me out.

Lisa Bodnar:

Don't listen to your mom. That dress looks good on you.

Sameera Nayak:

Yeah. Yeah.

Lisa Bodnar:

At a party, where can someone find you?

Sameera Nayak:

Probably at the bar.

Lisa Bodnar:

That's okay.

Sameera Nayak:

If we're being realistic.

Lisa Bodnar:

You can be honest.

Sameera Nayak:

But I won't be drinking. I'll be nursing the same drink or I... Maybe you'll find me in the dance floor if there's enough people dancing.

Lisa Bodnar:

Okay.

Sameera Nayak:

Or if I've been at the bar long enough that I'm okay with being one of the few people dancing.

Lisa Bodnar:

What do you think is the most underrated or underused emoji?

Sameera Nayak:

I think the skull is an underrated underused emoji.

Lisa Bodnar:

Okay. Tell me.

Sameera Nayak:

I use it all the time.

Lisa Bodnar:

When do you use it?

Sameera Nayak:

Well, I use it in many different contexts. There's it's dead, right? It's a skull. So obviously like, "I'm dead." Something funny or something, but also sending you a screenshot of an email I got where someone called me Sabrina, here's the death emoji or, "Just had a work out," death emoji. "Got a review back," death emoji. So I feel like it's very versatile. It never really conveys actual death. That would be weird.

Lisa Bodnar:

Yes. That would be weird, right?

Sameera Nayak:

Yeah, no. You wouldn't be like, "Oh, someone passed away," death emoji. Yeah, no. It's amusing, I'm laughing, but I'm crying. The crying, laughing emoji. I use that. Apparently that's not cool anymore.

Lisa Bodnar:

Really?

Sameera Nayak:

That's what I saw on the TikTok. Well, the one there you're... And it has tears.

Lisa Bodnar:

Yeah. What are we supposed to use instead?

Sameera Nayak:

And I'm not sure. Apparently only older people. Apparently I'm an old person, millennials use it.

Lisa Bodnar:

Oh my gosh.

Sameera Nayak:

I was teaching last semester and I'm pretty young. So I-

Lisa Bodnar:

You're not even 30. Is this right?

Sameera Nayak:

I'm not even 30. I'll be 30 next year.

Lisa Bodnar:

Okay.

Sameera Nayak:

Yeah. I'm not cool anymore.

Lisa Bodnar:

Not cool.

Sameera Nayak:

I have memes in my slides trying to be trying to be a cool professor.

Lisa Bodnar:

Me too.

Sameera Nayak:

But I'm not.

Lisa Bodnar:

Me too. Yeah. My kids would say that's cringey although I think cringey is not even the word we're supposed to say anymore now.

Sameera Nayak:

No. It's cheugi or something. It is. I swear. [inaudible 00:29:42]. Yeah.

Lisa Bodnar:

Cheugi?

Sameera Nayak:

I think it's called cheugi. And maybe I'm totally using it wrong.

Lisa Bodnar:

Please look it up. Please look it up because I-

Sameera Nayak:

C-H-E-U-G-I.

Lisa Bodnar:

C-H-E-U-

Sameera Nayak:

Commonly used by gen Z as a pejorative to describe lifestyle trends associated with the early two thousands and millennial, the opposite of trendy or trying too hard. Yeah. I would be trying too hard with my-

Lisa Bodnar:

I'm going to say a list of things and I'd like you to tell me yes or no.

Sameera Nayak:

Okay.

Lisa Bodnar:

Parades.

Sameera Nayak:

No.

Lisa Bodnar:

Me neither.

Sameera Nayak:

Now they're too crowded.

Lisa Bodnar:

They're too crowded.

Sameera Nayak:

And I have to walk around. I'm stressed.

Lisa Bodnar:

I agree. And I want to bring because I don't want to stand.

Sameera Nayak:

I hate standing.

Lisa Bodnar:

Halloween.

Sameera Nayak:

No. I didn't have it growing up. I didn't go trick or treating. I tried it out in college, which is I think a very different version of Halloween than the kids' version. And it just seemed like a lot of effort, and I'm not into it.

Lisa Bodnar:

Make-up.

Sameera Nayak:

Yes.

Lisa Bodnar:

You're a yes.

Sameera Nayak:

Capital Y. Sephora VIB Rouge member here. Yes. Yes. All my money is on dogs and skin care and makeup. Love it, just love it.

Lisa Bodnar:

I'm going to come to you when I need some advice.

Sameera Nayak:

Definitely. I will be your girl.

Lisa Bodnar:

Okay. Nutella.

Sameera Nayak:

Yes. During the pandemic, I went through multiple Costco size jars of Nutella. If you asked my advisor, when we have meetings or with... I have a sugar problem. So I would always be eating. They're like, "Why are you always eating?" I'm like, "I am." I'm always eating candy or I would literally sit with a tub and be like, "Yeah. So on the next slide." It was a low point I would say.

Lisa Bodnar:

And you just [crosstalk 00:31:31] with a spoon?

Sameera Nayak:

With a spoon, yeah. I know, isn't that horrible?

Lisa Bodnar:

I mean, whatever. We all have our things. Palm oil. Palm oil is fine.

Sameera Nayak:

Thanks. Thanks. I feel better.

Lisa Bodnar:

This has been so much fun.

Sameera Nayak:

Thank you.

Lisa Bodnar:

Thank you for taking time to do this with me.

Sameera Nayak:

Thank you so much.

Lisa Bodnar:

I'm going to ask you, Justin Bieber?

Sameera Nayak:

Yes. Not as a person, not as a person. As a music person on the radio.

Lisa Bodnar:

Yeah.

Sameera Nayak:

Yes.

Lisa Bodnar:

No, I don't want to hear about his personal life, but just sing.

Sameera Nayak:

Yeah.

Lisa Bodnar:

Just sing Biebs.

Sameera Nayak:

Yeah.

Lisa Bodnar:

I'm a belieber.

Sameera Nayak:

You're a belieber?

Lisa Bodnar:

No, I'm not. I'm not. That's no.

Sameera Nayak:

We're not all the way there.